Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

You can get ~ 1,300 XP without ever leaving BG/Eastern Farmlands so level 2 requires no combat unless you are an ECL1+ race. Those same quests will net you maybe 500 gold (assuming you sell the silver necklace/silver ring). You can get another 300 XP/300 gold for killing bats, though this is maybe difficult for some level 2's, but probably not.

Taking about 500 of that ~800 gold and spending it on potions should make any character more than able to handle the bandits. One Barkskin potion (lasts 90 real time minutes) , one mage armor potion (lasts 30 real time minutes) and maybe 3 potions of bless (lasts 3 minutes each) and a couple of shield potions (last 5 minutes) should allow you to get through the entire bandit cave as a melee (save the bless and shield potions for when you are fighting multiple enemies). As a Caster it can be a bit more difficult since summons will last long enough to appear and disappear by the time you throw a couple buffs on them Honestly it would be really cool if, instead of min/level summons could last for 10 minutes + 1 min/level. It wouldn't be a huge boost to the higher level casters, but at low levels it would make leveling much easier to stomach since, until you can afford a staff of frost your puny wizard is basically incapable of doing just about anything until level 3 (invisibility solves a lot of problems, even if it only lasts 3 min/ cast at that point).

It sounds like I need to find this Bandit cave you speak of. At one point in the early days I found myself wondering into some ruins inhabited by Goblins, whom then proceeded to dismember me.

Personally I found finding mobs to kill at level 1 and 2 a challenge.
But now a week or so into it, I've got a better grasp on what zones are safe, and more importantly what zones are NOT.

Yea, especially the backpack of the hearthy and probably a couple other things that might help a low level are not common knowledge to the new guys I am sure.

The problem is also that even if you a good AC sometimes you get swarmed and then the many attempts lead to frequent natural 20 endangering you again especially if you have lots hp like a wizard.

K'yon Oblodra wrote:Yea, especially the backpack of the hearthy and probably a couple other things that might help a low level are not common knowledge to the new guys I am sure.

The problem is also that even if you a good AC sometimes you get swarmed and then the many attempts lead to frequent natural 20 endangering you again especially if you have lots hp like a wizard.

"Better part of Valor!"

Potions of Expeditious Retreat should ALWAYS be carried by low levels as an "Oh @#%#!" button. If you have potions up to increase AC so you are only hit on a crit than you should have no trouble getting away when mobbed. You brought your ranged weapon, right? Kite a few of the enemies staying out of range of melee until you thin the heard, or run around a corner and hide, or cast spells. There are many ways to handle getting swarmed at low levels, but most of them will require the use of consumables. So long as you are opening up ~5 or 6 chests you should be able to replace a potion of expeditious retreat and the gold cost is always going to be easier to stomach than XP loss...

K'yon Oblodra wrote:Yea, especially the backpack of the hearthy and probably a couple other things that might help a low level are not common knowledge to the new guys I am sure.

The problem is also that even if you a good AC sometimes you get swarmed and then the many attempts lead to frequent natural 20 endangering you again especially if you have lots hp like a wizard.

IMO new characters/players should just spawn with that backpack in their inventory to make those early levels easier. It would go a long way. As as well as a handful of cure light wound potions.

Kagger911 wrote:

Aspect of Sorrow wrote:This argument can be drilled into the ground to the point that localvault is introduced and instant 30s are handed out and still not satiate the underscoring issues present from both the module and the playerbase.

I need an official 'this is an attempt to fix a symptom and not the problem' band-aid image made.

/t

The medical analogy is an interesting one. In some cases where no true cure for the underlying cause of the symptoms exist, the best you can do to improve a patient's quality of life IS treat the symptom(s). And in this case, I'm quite sure we wouldn't have a consensus on what the underlying causes might be for both the server and the playerbase.

For me, any system that can improve the quality of my playtime is a step in the right direction. I'm reminded of the Southpark episode where they had to grind boars for months in order to kill the pvp griefer and save the world. . . of warcraft. When they finally succeeded, Stan asked "now what?" To which Cartman replied, "now we can play the game."

In my opinion, 'the game' that Baldur's Gate best represents is roleplaying. And while I realize that you can roleplay at any level and have a good time, I suspect many people (like me) still like to advance their characters mechanically and feel like they're on par with the superstars on the server. Nobody wants to be like an Elder Scrolls hero, where everything is supposedly depending on you, but there are guards patrolling the road that can apparently take down anything in the land without breaking a sweat...it sort of breaks the illusion. This illusion isn't a problem in tabletop DnD, because you're group doesn't run into droves of level 30's all the time. But BGTSCC is a slightly different beast.

To improve the quality of my playtime? Remove the need to grind (quests, mobs, fishing, etc.). Although I'm beginning to suspect that there are actually people who like the grind. Who think it's sort of the point of the game. That without it there would be nothing to do. So I'm still hot on this concept of a separate instance of the server. We could beta several different xp systems until we hit upon the "best" one, where "best" simply is the one that fosters the best roleplay, with the fewest possible OOC motivations getting in the way. We are already hitting the server cap on the weekends and some weeknights, so maybe it would help alleviate that as well? Eh? Yeah? Huzzah! I've solved it!

Egg Shen wrote:

Kagger911 wrote:

Aspect of Sorrow wrote:This argument can be drilled into the ground to the point that localvault is introduced and instant 30s are handed out and still not satiate the underscoring issues present from both the module and the playerbase.

I need an official 'this is an attempt to fix a symptom and not the problem' band-aid image made.

/t

The medical analogy is an interesting one. In some cases where no true cure for the underlying cause of the symptoms exist, the best you can do to improve a patient's quality of life IS treat the symptom(s). And in this case, I'm quite sure we wouldn't have a consensus on what the underlying causes might be for both the server and the playerbase.

For me, any system that can improve the quality of my playtime is a step in the right direction. I'm reminded of the Southpark episode where they had to grind boars for months in order to kill the pvp griefer and save the world. . . of warcraft. When they finally succeeded, Stan asked "now what?" To which Cartman replied, "now we can play the game."

In my opinion, 'the game' that Baldur's Gate best represents is roleplaying. And while I realize that you can roleplay at any level and have a good time, I suspect many people (like me) still like to advance their characters mechanically and feel like they're on par with the superstars on the server. Nobody wants to be like an Elder Scrolls hero, where everything is supposedly depending on you, but there are guards patrolling the road that can apparently take down anything in the land without breaking a sweat...it sort of breaks the illusion. This illusion isn't a problem in tabletop DnD, because you're group doesn't run into droves of level 30's all the time. But BGTSCC is a slightly different beast.

To improve the quality of my playtime? Remove the need to grind (quests, mobs, fishing, etc.). Although I'm beginning to suspect that there are actually people who like the grind. Who think it's sort of the point of the game. That without it there would be nothing to do. So I'm still hot on this concept of a separate instance of the server. We could beta several different xp systems until we hit upon the "best" one, where "best" simply is the one that fosters the best roleplay, with the fewest possible OOC motivations getting in the way. We are already hitting the server cap on the weekends and some weeknights, so maybe it would help alleviate that as well? Eh? Yeah? Huzzah! I've solved it!

A more educated version of what many have been saying about this for the last 3 years. IT IS OUR GAME PLAYTIME. Not the servers and when so many express an issue with this the past answer has always been L2P NEWB! Or JUST ACCEPT IT! Yeah not what you tell your fan base who keeps your ancient game alive. I admit I started to get that way after 3 years of play here and just ACCEPTED IT. Not anymore. This is stupid ridiculous. Some levels are horrendous to get. I am talking about you levels 21-30 which consist of the same amount of XP that you had to get from 1-20...........

A more educated version of what many have been saying about this for the last 3 years. IT IS OUR GAME PLAYTIME. Not the servers and when so many express an issue with this the past answer has always been L2P NEWB! Or JUST ACCEPT IT! Yeah not what you tell your fan base who keeps your ancient game alive. I admit I started to get that way after 3 years of play here and just ACCEPTED IT. Not anymore. This is stupid ridiculous. Some levels are horrendous to get. I am talking about you levels 21-30 which consist of the same amount of XP that you had to get from 1-20...........

Yup. That's why I mentioned the absolute worst part of it comes after 18 really. XP gain slows waaaay down, and only gets progressively worse and worse as it goes. Eventually grinding is not even really an option because the mobs give almost no XP. It's absolutely brutal for a person who has real life obligations and can't just hang around waiting to get into events for XP. I mean, in the end, the ultra grinders will still hit 30 faster, like they always have. An XP change will simple just help the rest of us reach it at some point in our playtime.

It will also allow people to play more than one character feasibly, and maybe enjoy a few different builds and classes the server has to offer.

I would actually argue it would even be beneficial to cut XP by 10-20% from 1-18 and increase it by 50% 18-29...The leveling would feel more even at least.

i guess it is just me that thinks there should be a struggle to get to level 30. lower solo grind xp in the early twenties means you should try to get out and RP your character with others to get a group or participate in an event. these are good things not bad. if you still like solo grinding it is still there, its just not as quick as before mid teens.

It's all in how you define "struggle."

If you mean it should take a while, fine. Establish a timeline and find a system that makes it so, while not being onerous to tackle.

If you mean that it should be un-fun, or that it should be "work," then I simply to do not agree.

Based on your advice to get into groups and such, I assume you don't want it to be unfun. But depending on the amount of playtime you have, or even just the type of playtime you have (a fair amount, but always in small chunks can be just as difficult, maybe even moreso, than not much playtime, but large chunks of it when you finally can get on), it can definitely feel like you have to choose between advancing your character mechanically, or advancing your character socially. I would prefer socially, but I definitely don't want it to take me a year to level somebody up to 30.

The way I see it is this (ie. my opinion, not staff opinion):

At level 1-5 you are generally earning around 30 XP / kill and need relatively little XP to level.

At 6-18 you can generally earn ~50 XP / kill and, depending on your build, if you are in a group or if you are willing to utilize consumables you can generally do so with relatively little risk. Obviously as you get higher in level the 50 XP / kill means you need more kills to level, but overall it never seems overly slow. As you get to ~16 or 17 you may only be getting ~40 XP per kill instead of 50.

At 19-23 you generally can now only *safely* gain ~20-35 XP / kill (depending on build and surface vs. UD, in UD at 20 you simply can't go anywhere where you gain more than 21/kill). Consumables are less beneficial as dispels and breaches become far more common and until CL25 a regular dispel can still strip wards. For non-casters using consumables you really should only rely on them for bosses since they will be stripped by mobs pretty consistently.

24 + you are lucky to reach 20XP / kill in most cases. Sometimes in a group you can go kill Naga's for a while, but even that is generally going to require a high level caster to buff you up so it is not always an option.

Generally speaking, in my opinion all epic CR areas simply need to be reviewed and have XP gains updated. Frost Giants should be giving ~40XP at level 27 or 28 (ECL 0), but they only give about 20, for example.

i think a year is the appropriate time. there are alot of players on the server that have toons for over a year as there only/main and have not reached 30. but i would say the majority do it in about that time.

just getting xp for logging is not the answer. that is silly. i could literally log in everyday and drink ale and be a level 30 monk. does that make sense?

the double xp function sounds alright but i would think that xp at the lower levels would need to be lowered to compensate for the bonuses. or max it at 1000xp/week and only RP xp builds on the bonus.

anything worth doing is hard to do.

chad878262 wrote:I would actually argue it would even be beneficial to cut XP by 10-20% from 1-18 and increase it by 50% 18-29...The leveling would feel more even at least.

How about we just up Epic XP? I like the levels from 1-18. THey are fine just as they are actually. I like that I can go get 50 XP per dire bear at level 7. That is a CL11 Area. It should pop me 50 at 7.

aaron22 wrote:i think a year is the appropriate time. there are alot of players on the server that have toons for over a year as there only/main and have not reached 30. but i would say the majority do it in about that time.

just getting xp for logging is not the answer. that is silly. i could literally log in everyday and drink ale and be a level 30 monk. does that make sense?

the double xp function sounds alright but i would think that xp at the lower levels would need to be lowered to compensate for the bonuses. or max it at 1000xp/week and only RP xp builds on the bonus.

anything worth doing is hard to do.

A year to 30 doing what? 2 hours per week? 2 hours per day? What does a year to 30 mean? When you say something like that I assume you mean a occasional gamer can make 30 in a year right? Not a grinder? A grinder having to take a year would mean that poor poor casual gamer you know?