Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Steve wrote:

Below level 10 you simply have no chance there - regardless how clever your RP ideas are.

I underlined "there" because...the There is The Problem. Your Level 10 Rogue should be "active" in a Lvl 8–12 environment, ONLY! Else, it will always fail. This isn't a problem for Rogues, it is a problem for all builds, and will always be a problem in a Level 1–30 sandbox.

Your best bet, in my humble opinion, is avoid higher-than-your-PCs-level encounters. Create your own group that works. Ask DMs for help.

I'm afraid I still wrote it in a way that is easily misunderstood - I do not talk about any PvM encounters.
My concern lies with player-player encounters (not PvP though!) solely.
BGTSCC is an difficult environment for non-powerbuilds. Was like that many years ago, is like that now, will be like that in 10 years still.
I appreciate the thought behind that although in my opinion a better result could have been achieved by just capping the level at ~ 12-15.
(Which would have made the server way less popular, though, to say the very least - don't want to open that can of worms, either. )

So whenever I start a character here I usually realize within days that I once again managed to create something that needs to stick to lower CR than what my char sheet says.
When I hear of people that grind Xvarts at level 10 I cannot help but burst out laughing. In all my years on this server I never managed to have such a a powerful character.
Doesn't matter, though.
I don't ancy about fighting/killing/looting any of those epic bosses (or even the areas - last epic area I saw was the Frost King Halls in 2010, since then the hardest I ever visited were the crypts near Gullykin - together with a dozen epic characters ).

I just stick to lower-level areas and have fun RPing a merchant type of char.
Kel didn't need to brag about devastating Wormthrax either to be a character to remember, right?

Anyway, I'm too tired to make another point now, I therefore cut it here.

VillageGreenWitch wrote: When I hear of people that grind Xvarts at level 10 I cannot help but burst out laughing. In all my years on this server I never managed to have such a a powerful character.

Almost nobody does but when you have a party of 4-6 people you just hang back and RP while they do the work.

This may be a bit off topic, but personally, I'd like to see more abilities to craft, which would in turn allow more roleplay, which would grant more experience.

I made my blacksmith with that sole intention, crafting weapons and armor for those in need. Unfortunately, with the system as it currently stands, actual physical crafting is not an option. I may have all the skill needed, but the actual items do not exist.

Implement crafting, and I can foresee more player/player interactions, as well as more 'personal quests' for resources and the like for the items they wish.

Again though, this is off topic. But it's my two copper.

Laughingman wrote:

VillageGreenWitch wrote: When I hear of people that grind Xvarts at level 10 I cannot help but burst out laughing. In all my years on this server I never managed to have such a a powerful character.

Almost nobody does but when you have a party of 4-6 people you just hang back and RP while they do the work.

100%, I use my fighter to "carry" casters who would otherwise stand zero chance of survival in Xvart's all the time. Ghostly_Rose gained a few levels just following me around invisible and RPing.

VillageGreenWitch wrote:I just stick to lower-level areas and have fun RPing a merchant type of char.

Do you think your character knows for certain, that they will get better, and will become more skillful?

I've been told many a time—though I wasn't asking...—that our Characters have no concept of Level. Thus, our Characters exist in the moment of the Experience they have, and, though they may desire to become more powerful, or more skillful, or even less powerful ( ), they really have no idea about it, or, really no concept that it shall happen for them.

This is in-character thinking.

Now, for OOC thinking, it is the opposite: we know exactly what our Toons can aspire to become, because, all we need to do is invest RL hours and hours into it, and voila! We win.

But what I argue is that, at that moment, any moment, we are RPing our Characters, they would be making the most of their Life and Experience at that time, and not be simply grinding out experience in order to "one day make an Improved Critical..."

And like I've said, even in CvC encounters, it really should not be a Level 1 and a Level 30 trying to "express themselves," especially mechanically. No D&D module or Campaign would subject a Player to that...it is like insta-failure.

The only think one can do, in my opinion, is group together other PCs that are your PCs level, and do all you can to enjoy that "life at that moment" moment.

So really, what I'm saying is that XP for PCs is not a PC issue, but a Player issue. It is a "we want everything and everything a bit easier" issue.

The Reward of getting to Level 30—if that is your goal—is that it was challenging, took lots of investment, and is something to be proud of accomplishing. Work for it, and appreciate your work.

Doubling XP for bosses is good if you live on the surface. It's terrible in the UD.

Flasmix wrote:Doubling XP for bosses is good if you live on the surface. It's terrible in the UD.

But on a more positive note the UpD has more chests and lootables in it after the last update! So baby steps! THe UpD areas need bosses. Each one of the areas. Then you would be getting on par with the surface a bit!

Steve wrote:The Reward of getting to Level 30—if that is your goal—is that it was challenging, took lots of investment, and is something to be proud of accomplishing. Work for it, and appreciate your work.

I've had 4 level 30's on this server (2 got lost in my long hiatus, sadly, so only two currently). I do not feel proud of accomplishing anything, as it is truly not a matter of skill, or even "hard work" in the traditional sense, but of time. For 3 of the 4, it was definitely a goal to get to 30. My second underdark character was the most organic in his leveling from 1-30 and it took quite a while, but he is not the one I prefer to play the most (due to mechanical reasons, mostly. I just prefer rogue-play more than melee).

I've gone over the reasons that I prefer higher level RP on this particular server (I actually prefer lower level campaigns for pnp and hardcore rules/perma-death servers OR if I have an actual organized playgroup that purposely logs in together), so I won't rehash them. Just wanted to give a counterpoint based on my experience here.

The reward of getting to level 30 for me is that I can roleplay in the way that I prefer to. . . again, on this particular server.

delete

Calodan wrote:
But on a more positive note the UpD has more chests and lootables in it after the last update! So baby steps! THe UpD areas need bosses. Each one of the areas. Then you would be getting on par with the surface a bit!

Surfacers can do Upperdark stuff too on top of their ridiculous surface content. A few more stuff just for the UD would work towards evening it out.

Egg Shen wrote: I do not feel proud of accomplishing anything, as it is truly not a matter of skill, or even "hard work" in the traditional sense, but of time.

I see your point. Which, to add to, means that if XP gain was increased, then it would be less hard work, AND less time, which means 2 x less.

So really, it matters not what the limit is on BGTSCC, but that Players want to reach this limit as fast as possible.

Imagine what the Environment would be like, if, when a PC reaches 30, it becomes NPC'd. lol. That would definitely change a few things, now wouldn't it?!?

Flasmix wrote:

Calodan wrote:
But on a more positive note the UpD has more chests and lootables in it after the last update! So baby steps! THe UpD areas need bosses. Each one of the areas. Then you would be getting on par with the surface a bit!

Surfacers can do Upperdark stuff too on top of their ridiculous surface content. A few more stuff just for the UD would work towards evening it out.

Hm honestly this seems like a poor comparison. The UD does not even have 1/10th of the surface player base, So really it should have less content especially when the staff want to cut out more content.

I don't think the UD needs higher XP rates but easier monsters for sure, Its harder to get a party down there and that means you have to solo a lot. Which really killed it for me, Granted i was a newbie with no epic gear to transfer, so solo was a lot harder then it likely is for vets. Easier areas means people can stay logged even when the areas void of RP, Longer people stay more chance of RP even if it is grind RP.

Flasmix wrote:

Calodan wrote:
But on a more positive note the UpD has more chests and lootables in it after the last update! So baby steps! THe UpD areas need bosses. Each one of the areas. Then you would be getting on par with the surface a bit!

Surfacers can do Upperdark stuff too on top of their ridiculous surface content. A few more stuff just for the UD would work towards evening it out.

They can but I do not see them down there much in fact. It is still part of the under races areas even though surface is full on allowed there. Either way I think it goes a long ways to giving ALL THE UD players a place to go that has more loot and Kro's itself is one of the best level 12-18 grind spots on the server.

Steve wrote:

Egg Shen wrote: I do not feel proud of accomplishing anything, as it is truly not a matter of skill, or even "hard work" in the traditional sense, but of time.

I see your point. Which, to add to, means that if XP gain was increased, then it would be less hard work, AND less time, which means 2 x less.

So really, it matters not what the limit is on BGTSCC, but that Players want to reach this limit as fast as possible.

Imagine what the Environment would be like, if, when a PC reaches 30, it becomes NPC'd. lol. That would definitely change a few things, now wouldn't it?!?

Sure would! People would optimize their builds for level 29 instead of 30...

I still don't get how increasing XP gain is going to negatively effect anyone's RP on this server. Who cares if someone get's to 30 a little easier than you did when you did it?

This server should be about having fun, trying out lots of RP across a few characters. Not about killing edless hours of Xvarts to keep up with the people around you. It's easy to tell people to work hard to get to 30 when you have the free time to dedicate those hours to both grinding to progress AND role play in equal measure. This is not the case for some.

For new players, I am sure many burn out once they hit a certain level and it starts to become more and more of a chore to progress. Especially when they run into events and they are almost always geared toward level 21+ characters in CR. And then to come here and read a thread like this, and the last one, where over 50% of the server votes in favour of XP increase for kills, but the vocal minority of hardcores wins out anyways.

It shows people that not only do the players who are more casual not really matter, but that the majority speaking out on something also go unheard for no truly good reason.

Because honestly, I have not seen one good reason to not do it come up. Not a single one. Mostly it's just people's personal playstyles being they like to grind for longer or think that other people reaching level 30 easier than they did will somehow make their RP worse (it wont.).