Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Egg Shen wrote:

Hoihe wrote:So, considering we can balance on clouds and swim up waterfalls...

Is it really that big of a stretch that someone with 60+ points in H/MS is able to reliably whisper, or throw their voice occasionally?

Yes. It is that big of a stretch. It's a completely different skill. I'm fine with it if we want to make a new skill or tie it into perform or something. Add a feat or some magic spells to make it happen. But assuming that somebody who has perfected stealth has also perfected ventriloquism or throwing their voice doesn't seem right to me. That argument seems like it could be used to tie together some very loosely associated things, and not for the betterment of our gameplay experience. Well, 80 swim can swim up a waterfall, so you need to roll a DC based on my 80 intimidate or give me all your gold and crap your pants (and that's actually much more closely linked than sneaking = voice throwing...).

And let's not forget that spot and listen Checks, according to that same page, can do some pretty amazing things as well that aren't currently represented in game.

And anyone who wants to spot things can buy +4 spot items for 15k or less, and often with bonus feats and stats on the same item. People who want to hide shell out hundreds of thousands for a +4 H/MS piece of equipment, often without any other beneficial stats.

Betterment of gameplay requires bringing up how incredibly easy it is for a completely untrained spotter to ruin the day of a sneaker with UMD and gear.

The in game economy has nothing to do with anything. The detection > stealth situation is more an issue with how 3.5 works and is a discussion that's been had many, many times separate of the current issue. And certainly "untrained spotters" can't ruin the day of max stealth sneakers. They need to at least have maxed out the skill and have access to their own skill boosting gear and/or spells-UMD to really be a problem. It's not the same investment in gold (a.k.a. Time), but it's still a significant investment as a character build.

If the devs are happy to leave the situation as it is because they want to help out sneakers, that's cool. I don't necessarily agree with it, but at least we could close down this topic (for a while ).

As a sneaker, I'm just glad that spotters can't flag us for the whole world to see. "Don't you see him? Here he is. Here! Literally right in front of you!! He's urinating on your boots!!"

Egg Shen wrote:"He's urinating on your boots!!"

This should DEFINITELY break stealth.

Steve wrote:

Egg Shen wrote:"He's urinating on your boots!!"

This should DEFINITELY break stealth.

Well if that breaks stealth then we definitely need a "stealth urination" feat. How else am I supposed to live in the shadows?

p.s. I almost posted it as "steal urination" feat...which may still also be a good feat to have.