Firstly,
Valefort's "CR list" is awfully non-indicative of difficulty. It is challenge rating as intended for pen an paper - encounter for a full party of classic set up. I'm yet to see a level 8 character do orcs - maybe bards can do it. But bards can do everything while naked so they don't count.
Which brings me to my second point! Actually, I'd have posted in 7 hours ago, but the public PC I wrote on lost internet. So... here it goes!
Secondly, as was written 7 hours ago:
Furthermore, you people and I appear to have wildly different ideas on the purpose of end-game equipment and optimized builds.
In short, you want standard content to be challenging despite wearing top-end gear or actively pursuing the most optimal build choices, whereas I see acquisition of top-end gear or optimal building as a way to unlock hardcore content for soloing and to overcome what others are challenged by with breeze.
In long, I praise the form of game design where you balance around the idea that there is a player called Standard Joe, who plays a generic character, who, although unoptimized, is built as the game designers intended. He's definitely not weak, for he didn't make any build choices that would make one raise the question "why?", but he also did not sacrifice the picture he had for more armor/HP/damage/whathave you. He's mediocre and thus standard. Furthermore, Standard Joe has a standard amount of time to dedicate to the game - something you can expect from your target demographic to commit without sacrifices. Finally, Standard Joe understands basic mechanics and tactics, but he has a standard level of OOC experience, so he won't be finding arcane ways to solve issues.
Now, in this form of game design, there exist three forms of content available at every level/level-range. This is a mandatory optional choice for the player - meaning if they wish to progress their character optimally, they must choose from this slew of content, but optional, as they have three ways to go about it.
- First off, we have Casual/Easy content. Casual/Easy content dictates the experience you deserve for going to new areas, taking on new foes. The loot is rather pitiful, and there are no opportunities to challenge yourself for extra rewards. However, any character barring a 8 strength melee rogue fighting in full plate with a halberd, can solo. The sole purpose of this type of content is to allow people with little time to dedicate to the game to still progress along their peers without risking setbacks. It has a secondary benefit of assisting builds with non-linear power progression to keep up with their peers as well. The punishment is the lack of challenge opportunities and pitiful loot. Average experience is NOT diminished.
- Secondly, we have standard content. This one can be soloed with moderate risk by our Standard Joe. Casual Jack will run into issues if he doesn't know how to properly itemize or make target priority, but he is also not required to do this form of content, as it provides the same amount of XP as casual content. So why go for standard content over casual? Two things.
- Opportunities to challenge oneself arise in form of final bosses or branching,
OPTIONAL mini-bosses. These opportunities are rewarded with increased experience reward,
potentially loot as well. These opportunities MAY be too hard for Standard Joe to solo - and that is okay, these are opportunities - thus: optional. This has the added benefit that Hardcore Bill gets to feel accomplishment from tackling challenges others fail at - the purpose of wearing the best gear with optimized build. - The loot is abundant enough that Standard Joe has a good chance to keep wearing gear good enough to continue on to the next level range's standard content by the time he's leveled enough. *this is assuming daily clears of the area,
rather than active grinding.
- Thirdly, we have hardcore content, or end-game - depending on whether it is situated at late epics or during character progression. This content is purely optional - you get XP needed from casual, gear needed from standard. The primary purpose of this content is the challenge itself - giving reason for Hardcore Bills to accumulate the best gear possible with the most optimal stats they can achieve to show that they are the best at dungeoneering. But while the challenge itself is in a way reward enough, this form of content is filled with exceptional amount of loot, or have limited loot but with guaranteed quality. Mini-bosses are mandatory to fight, and the final boss cannot be soloed even by the most hardcore of hardcore bills. Most of this content can be tackled by a party of standard joes, or perhaps even a (sub)-standard build, if played by someone who knows their character and the area in and out.
Unfortunately, we lack the development power to produce all three types of content for every level range. As such, by rule we should make sure that there is always STANDARD content available before doing either of the other two. STANDARD content is core content. Casual/Hardcore is luxury content.
This change pushed the entire server indiscriminate if it affected a standard or hardcore or even a casual area greatly towards hardcore. This is not good.
While now those who fall into Hardcore Bill category find themselves savoring the challenge, eventually for them it will become the new norm as people struggle to adapt and take on Hardcore-bill style builds. This kills, at least for me, the reason of being a Hardcore Bill - to be capable of special feats nobody/few others can achieve, either through casually walking through standard content without a scratch, or by soloing hardcore content without requiring special tactics.
Side note: (All of my builds, the Sorc6/dragonW10/EK10/Blood magus4, the Rogue 20/5 divine seeker/5SD, and I'm pretty sure my current one of wizard 17/duelist5/swashbuckler5/shadowdancer 3, have been able to take on VotD/Netherese Maze
with great supply cost and strenous attention from me. This is an example of sub-standard taking on high-end content through special tactics and succeeding. It feels amazing. But it shouldn't be the norm.)
Now, my impression is that in the opinion of Hardcore Bill, there isn't enough Hardcore/high-end content, and for them, being all-powerful in standard content areas gets boring after a while. I understand that issue perfectly. However, the problem is when ALL of standard content gets turned up to be way harder. Sure, take away a few of the areas and make them only accessible through superior effort - maybe by turning multi level dungeons into a progression: deeper you go, harder it gets.
This feels unfair at the moment, that while other than late-epics, there is a lack in Hardcore content, there is always the possibility to tackle higher content without impeding their progress. Can't do the same with standard content - going to lower CR areas leads to slower progress. Furthermore, Avernus/Netherese Maze & the magma golems leading up to it/Vault of the Dead/The Balor/The White dragon/arguably the Illithid Hive all exist late-game to test one's mettle.
However, as to not eschew our new system entirely I have two ideas:
One, the simpler one, is to simply connect it to an on/off switch controlled by whether there is a party on a map or not. After all, a party of Standard Joes should be able to tackle Hardcore content, no?
The more complicated idea would be to still tie it to party size - essentially making parties an "opt-in" for greater challenges and rewards. However, in addition to scaling with party size, it would also be chance based rather than a flat bonus to HD.
Rough sketch of what I think follows.
Code: Select all
CR+0 = Base CR - 2 + 1d2 occuring at W%
CR+1 = Base CR - 3 + 2d2 occuring at X%
CR+2 = Base CR - 3 + 1d2 + 1d3 occuring at Y%
CR+3 = Base CR - 4 + 1d4 + 1d3 occuring at Z%
CR+4 = Base CR - 4 + 1d4 + 2d2 occuring at Zs%
Where W,X,Y,Z,ZS scale towards Zs as party size increases, starting at a non-zero value once the player is of eligible level.
As final note:
By Standard Gear, I define at most +3 equipment. Yes, +4 equipment became more abundant now than it did years ago, but it's rare and expensive. +4 gear should give you a boost, while +3 should make you on par.
