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Re: Heartwarder PRC

Posted: Sun May 30, 2021 5:11 pm
by zhazz
Rather than opening the class up to multiple deities, how about making a few changes to it to go along with that?

What I'm proposing is to have certain levels grant something different, depending on the deity of choice.

The most obvious choices here are at levels 2, 6, and 10.
Endelyon wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:13 am Requirements:
Alignment: Good
Deity: Sune, Hanali Cenalil, Sharess, etc
Skills: Bluff 3 ranks, Diplomacy 6 ranks
Feats: Dodge, Mobility, Spell Focus (Enchantment), Exotic (or Bard) Weapon Proficiency
Spellcasting: Ability to cast third level spells

Class Features:
HD: d4
BAB: Low
High Saves: Fort, Will
Weapon and Armor proficiency: None
Skill points: 2 + Int modifier
Class Skills: Bluff, Craft Armor, Craft Weapon, Concentration, Diplomacy, Disguise, Heal, Lore (Religion), Perform, Sense Motive, Spellcraft.

Class Abilities:
Level 1: Heart of Passion +1, Spellcasting Progression
Level 2: Deity Specific Bonus Feat
Level 3: Heart of Passion +2
Level 4: Charisma Increase +1
Level 5: Heart of Passion +3
Level 6: Deity Specific Bonus Feat
Level 7: Heart of Passion +4
Level 8: Charisma Increase +2
Level 9: Heart of 00FFFF+5
Level 10: Deity Specific Bonus Feat

Spells per Day/Spells Known: At each Heartwarder level, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if she had also gained a level in a spellcasting class to which she belonged before adding the prestige class level. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (improved chance of turning or destroying undead, metamagic or item creation feats, and so on). If the character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a Heartwarder, the player must decide to which class to add Heartwarder levels to for the purpose of determining spells per day and spells known.

Heart of Passion: At 1st level, a Heartwarder displays such passionate belief in whatever she does or says that she can sway the thoughts of the most rigid critic. This ability translates into a +1 bonus on all Charisma-based skill checks. This bonus increases by +1 at levels 3, 5, 7, and 9 (for a total of +5).

Charisma Increase: As the Heartwarder gains levels in this prestige class, she becomes increasingly more persuasive and attractive. The Heartwarder gains a +1 charisma bonus at level 4 and again at level 8 (for a total of +2).

Deity Specific Bonus Feat:
At levels 2, 6, and 10 the Heartwarder's deity learn rare rites and prayers, which infuse them with special gifts and blessings from their deity.

Followers of other deities receive something specific/unique to their deity of choice.

While nothing changes for followers of Sune, and they still receive the following.
Lips of Rapture: At 2nd level, a Heartwarder's kiss confers a state of bliss upon its recipient, conferring a +3 morale bonus on attacks, weapon damage, checks, and saves. This ability lasts 10 rounds and can be used twice per day. The downside to a Heartwarder's kiss is that it also dazes the subject for one round once the effect wears off (cannot be resisted, even under the effects of Protection vs Alignment or Mindblank).

Voice of a Siren: At 6th level, a Heartwarder's voice is so enticing that she weakens the ability of opponents to resist her spells. She gains the Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment) feats for free.

Fey Metamorphosis: At 10th level, a Heartwarder is so attuned to the forces of natural beauty that she transcends mortal definitions of beauty and becomes touched with a Fey presence. She gains the Fey Power heritage feat for free (even if she does not meet the requirements). She also gains the low-light vision ability and becomes immune to charm and dominate.

Re: Heartwarder PRC

Posted: Sun May 30, 2021 5:20 pm
by Endelyon
JustAnotherGuy wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 3:36 pm
Hydros wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 6:55 am Let Anrilor have her Heartwarder class,
This, honestly, is my main issue with the class. I feel it's really tailored towards a single person. Sure, others in the future could use it. But realistically, it's time that coders and content makers would be taking to make a PrC that benefits a single person, rather than the server.

I don't really have a dog in the fight other than this. Whether it's OP or not, I'll leave that to others to decide. My only issue is as stated. If a coder is going to add something, let them add something that benefits more than one player.
On the subject of coder time:

The 2da entries for this class are already made which is 85% of the work done. If it weren't for ease of implementation it probably wouldn't have been first on my list, and still might not be when I get around to working on non-split related things again. This class has also been asked for multiple times by multiple different people for 10 years, so the demand is there, and many new PRCs we design that aren't deity-specific still only get used by 10 PCs or less years after creation (we have vault statistics), so saying it won't get used by enough people is hardly a valid reason to take the idea off the table.

Though I do still have other things to work on following the split so I wouldn't hold my breath for this to be implemented super soon in any case.

Re: Heartwarder PRC

Posted: Sun May 30, 2021 5:23 pm
by Hydros
JustAnotherGuy wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 3:36 pm
Hydros wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 6:55 am Let Anrilor have her Heartwarder class,
This, honestly, is my main issue with the class. I feel it's really tailored towards a single person. Sure, others in the future could use it. But realistically, it's time that coders and content makers would be taking to make a PrC that benefits a single person, rather than the server.

I don't really have a dog in the fight other than this. Whether it's OP or not, I'll leave that to others to decide. My only issue is as stated. If a coder is going to add something, let them add something that benefits more than one player.
Along with Xorena's point of how many people actually end up using these classes, most of them don't actually take long to get ready for implimentation, since they're just slight edits of existing classes from Kaedrin's PRC pack, like most of the non-base game classes on BGTSCC are.

Sure, Anrilor is likely to be the main user of this class, but she does play the most prominent member of Sunite clergy on the server. The mere existence of the class will entice others to try it out, and likely lead to an increase in both its use, and active Sunite RP, which should be viewed as a good thing.

Edit: Endelyon beat me to it as I was typing this out xD

Re: Heartwarder PRC

Posted: Sun May 30, 2021 5:49 pm
by JustAnotherGuy
Endelyon wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 5:20 pm On the subject of coder time:

The 2da entries for this class are already made which is 85% of the work done.
Well, that stifles my objection, lol. As to how it's implemented, as I said before, I trust that those doing it will make sure its power is in line with other classes, so I have no notes on that.

Re: Heartwarder PRC

Posted: Sun May 30, 2021 6:02 pm
by Xorena
To bring even more context to this debate from the Census data:

I am calculating a percentage of players who play the PRC for their deity, and extrapolating that to how many people might play a Heartwarder if given the chance. This is not scientific.

Based on the information below, you can expect anywhere from six to 25 Suneites to play a Heartwarder (based on the lowest percentage of 16 percent for Baneites to the high of 63 percent for Gond players).

Arguably a higher percentage of people play Gond because they want a Techsmith's Gondsman. Eliminating Techsmith, the next highest is Stormlord with 47 percent, which would put Sune at 18 players (assuming 40 people)

Deity Players of Deity Players of PRC Percent of PRC to Deity players
Bane 75 12 16.00%
Gond 65 41 63.08%
Lathander 69 16 23.19%
Selune 37 7 18.92%
Shar 90 26 28.89%
Talos 34 16 47.06%
Sune 40

Re: Heartwarder PRC

Posted: Sun May 30, 2021 6:08 pm
by Hydros
Xorena wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 6:02 pm To bring even more context to this debate from the Census data:

I am calculating a percentage of players who play the PRC for their deity, and extrapolating that to how many people might play a Heartwarder if given the chance. This is not scientific.

Based on the information below, you can expect anywhere from six to 25 Suneites to play a Heartwarder (based on the lowest percentage of 16 percent for Baneites to the high of 63 percent for Gond players).

Arguably a higher percentage of people play Gond because they want a Techsmith's Gondsman. Eliminating Techsmith, the next highest is Stormlord with 47 percent, which would put Sune at 18 players (assuming 40 people)

Deity Players of Deity Players of PRC Percent of PRC to Deity players
Bane 75 12 16.00%
Gond 65 41 63.08%
Lathander 69 16 23.19%
Selune 37 7 18.92%
Shar 90 26 28.89%
Talos 34 16 47.06%
Sune 40
Okay, well, I didn't expect that level of outright awesomeness from someone on this subject. Kudos for the work and dedication to (What I would call) fairness.

Re: Heartwarder PRC

Posted: Sun May 30, 2021 6:20 pm
by JustAnotherGuy
Xorena wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 6:02 pm To bring even more context to this debate from the Census data:

I am calculating a percentage of players who play the PRC for their deity, and extrapolating that to how many people might play a Heartwarder if given the chance. This is not scientific.

Based on the information below, you can expect anywhere from six to 25 Suneites to play a Heartwarder (based on the lowest percentage of 16 percent for Baneites to the high of 63 percent for Gond players).

Arguably a higher percentage of people play Gond because they want a Techsmith's Gondsman. Eliminating Techsmith, the next highest is Stormlord with 47 percent, which would put Sune at 18 players (assuming 40 people)

Deity Players of Deity Players of PRC Percent of PRC to Deity players
Bane 75 12 16.00%
Gond 65 41 63.08%
Lathander 69 16 23.19%
Selune 37 7 18.92%
Shar 90 26 28.89%
Talos 34 16 47.06%
Sune 40
This brings up a lot of curiosity in me. Not to debate anything, as I've already ceded. But my scientific mind wants to know things! lol. I'm wondering how representative those numbers are of current, active players. How many of those chose for flavor, and how many for power. And the split between, "I'm playing this god to get this PrC" and "I'm taking this PrC for flavor because my toon serves this god".

I don't expect these are questions we can actually answer, unfortunately.

Re: Heartwarder PRC

Posted: Sun May 30, 2021 10:36 pm
by AsuraKing
JustAnotherGuy wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 6:20 pm This brings up a lot of curiosity in me. Not to debate anything, as I've already ceded. But my scientific mind wants to know things! lol. I'm wondering how representative those numbers are of current, active players. How many of those chose for flavor, and how many for power. And the split between, "I'm playing this god to get this PrC" and "I'm taking this PrC for flavor because my toon serves this god".

I don't expect these are questions we can actually answer, unfortunately.
Cant answer for all, but can answer for Dreadmaster, that's 16% of Banites that picked it for flavor ;)

Edit: I will be honest, I dont know of anyone else that has/does play a Dreadmaster other than me :?

Re: Heartwarder PRC

Posted: Sun May 30, 2021 11:38 pm
by c2k
The reason why you have so many Gondsmiths is because they get that golem. its a big deal.

Shadow Adept is a powerful class.

You used to have a lot of Stomrlord builds a long time ago, but Stormlord got nerfed.

Re: Heartwarder PRC

Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:20 pm
by Habitu
AsuraKing wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 10:36 pm
JustAnotherGuy wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 6:20 pm This brings up a lot of curiosity in me. Not to debate anything, as I've already ceded. But my scientific mind wants to know things! lol. I'm wondering how representative those numbers are of current, active players. How many of those chose for flavor, and how many for power. And the split between, "I'm playing this god to get this PrC" and "I'm taking this PrC for flavor because my toon serves this god".

I don't expect these are questions we can actually answer, unfortunately.
Cant answer for all, but can answer for Dreadmaster, that's 16% of Banites that picked it for flavor ;)

Edit: I will be honest, I dont know of anyone else that has/does play a Dreadmaster other than me :?
I have a Dreadmaster made it some months ago but Bane RP I think at the time was low, I also had IRL and had stepped away for a bit. Mine is a DreadThaum. I do like her and want to get back into her some point!

Re: Heartwarder PRC

Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 4:24 pm
by Rhifox
Habitu wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:20 pm
AsuraKing wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 10:36 pm
JustAnotherGuy wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 6:20 pm This brings up a lot of curiosity in me. Not to debate anything, as I've already ceded. But my scientific mind wants to know things! lol. I'm wondering how representative those numbers are of current, active players. How many of those chose for flavor, and how many for power. And the split between, "I'm playing this god to get this PrC" and "I'm taking this PrC for flavor because my toon serves this god".

I don't expect these are questions we can actually answer, unfortunately.
Cant answer for all, but can answer for Dreadmaster, that's 16% of Banites that picked it for flavor ;)

Edit: I will be honest, I dont know of anyone else that has/does play a Dreadmaster other than me :?
I have a Dreadmaster made it some months ago but Bane RP I think at the time was low, I also had IRL and had stepped away for a bit. Mine is a DreadThaum. I do like her and want to get back into her some point!
Zhent/Banite RP is picking up right now, if you're looking to get back into it!

Re: Heartwarder PRC

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:26 am
by Anrilor
Endelyon wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:13 am This has been asked for a few times over the years and seems to be one of the more popularly requested PRCs, so I don't mind adding it. It will probably be designed like this, though any of these elements are subject to change before the final release.
Heartwarder
Sune Firehair encourages beauty, passion, and love wherever they may be found. Heartwarders are aesthetes and hedonists who actively seek out pleasure and beauty in all things and who nurture the creation of beautiful objects.

Most heartwarders are clerics, cleric/bards, favored souls, or cleric/rogues although other class combinations are not unknown. Many are employed as artists, crafters, performers, or instructors.

Requirements:
Alignment: Chaotic Good or Neutral Good
Deity: Sune
Skills: Bluff 3 ranks, Diplomacy 6 ranks
Feats: Dodge, Mobility, Spell Focus (Enchantment), Exotic (or Bard) Weapon Proficiency
Spellcasting: Ability to cast third level spells

Class Features:
HD: d4
BAB: Low
High Saves: Fort, Will
Weapon and Armor proficiency: None
Skill points: 2 + Int modifier
Class Skills: Bluff, Craft Armor, Craft Weapon, Concentration, Diplomacy, Disguise, Heal, Lore (Religion), Perform, Sense Motive, Spellcraft.

Class Abilities:
Level 1: Heart of Passion +1, Spellcasting Progression
Level 2: Lips of Rapture
Level 3: Heart of Passion +2
Level 4: Charisma Increase +1
Level 5: Heart of Passion +3
Level 6: Voice of a Siren
Level 7: Heart of Passion +4
Level 8: Charisma Increase +2
Level 9: Heart of Passion +5
Level 10: Fey Metamorphosis

Spells per Day/Spells Known: At each Heartwarder level, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if she had also gained a level in a spellcasting class to which she belonged before adding the prestige class level. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (improved chance of turning or destroying undead, metamagic or item creation feats, and so on). If the character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a Heartwarder, the player must decide to which class to add Heartwarder levels to for the purpose of determining spells per day and spells known.

Heart of Passion: At 1st level, a Heartwarder displays such passionate belief in whatever she does or says that she can sway the thoughts of the most rigid critic. This ability translates into a +1 bonus on all Charisma-based skill checks. This bonus increases by +1 at levels 3, 5, 7, and 9 (for a total of +5).

Lips of Rapture: At 2nd level, a Heartwarder's kiss confers a state of bliss upon its recipient, conferring a +3 morale bonus on attacks, weapon damage, checks, and saves. This ability lasts 10 rounds and can be used twice per day. The downside to a Heartwarder's kiss is that it also dazes the subject for one round once the effect wears off (cannot be resisted, even under the effects of Protection vs Alignment or Mindblank).

Charisma Increase: As the Heartwarder gains levels in this prestige class, she becomes increasingly more persuasive and attractive. The Heartwarder gains a +1 charisma bonus at level 4 and again at level 8 (for a total of +2).

Voice of a Siren: At 6th level, a Heartwarder's voice is so enticing that she weakens the ability of opponents to resist her spells. She gains the Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment) feats for free.

Fey Metamorphosis: At 10th level, a Heartwarder is so attuned to the forces of natural beauty that she transcends mortal definitions of beauty and becomes touched with a Fey presence. She gains the Fey Power heritage feat for free (even if she does not meet the requirements). She also gains the low-light vision ability and becomes immune to charm and dominate.
Also I wouldn't expect it too soon, as the server split is my number one priority atm. Shouldn't be too far down the pipeline though since most of the legwork for this one has already been done by Kaedrin.
I am just wondering the status of this variant, I know Endy said she would look into it after server split, and now that we're in a post-mostly-stable environment but with the unfortunate but understandable Endy break for the foreseeable future (per the grape vine, shoot me if I am wrong). If another Dev will pick this up or if it is being discussed at all?