Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

It's a tough balance to change things here. By default, people are really quite resistant to change, unless it's one they initiated themselves. All other changes quite often take some getting used to, and not everybody appreciates such changes.

My personal experience is that it's really tough to make changes. Not because making changes is hard, but because there is always someone opposed. It takes quite a strong will to make changes and push them through, because if someone disagrees with a change, they'll let you know. Again, from personal experience, you'll hear the loads of people who disagree with you all the time. You don't need to ask about it. But you'll rarely hear the people that agree with you, or appreciate what you do.
And maybe that's just my experience, because I don't do much tangible work for this community, and am a very sensitive person. I do always enjoy seeing the compliments in the thread of infinite appreciation, so I know a lot of work goes visibly appreciated as well.

But there are few things as thankless and tough to enact, as change. Dalo summarized it well earlier too. You'll often be waiting for someone else to say "go ahead with that change", because then you have someone else that believes in your changes, but you also get a shared responsibility, I think. You don't have to take the blows on your own if it backfires.

And another thing I've noticed is that there is always someone in disagreement. You can't have uniformly accepted changes. So regardless of the actual change what you do, you can't please everybody. I know that I'm not the only one on staff who's having a tough time with that, sometimes.


However, long story short, I truly appreciate the initiative shown here. I'll update and sift through the list I summarized from your points earlier, and will do my utmost to help in bringing said changes.

Zanniej wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:29 am However, long story short, I truly appreciate the initiative shown here. I'll update and sift through the list I summarized from your points earlier, and will do my utmost to help in bringing said changes.

The list of recommended changes has been spread out through this forum for about 15 years.
Some of these changes might actually have the affect of increasing the communities population.
It has been said that one person can not create change him/herself/themself.
Why not organize a group of interested persons to review/discuss/debate any and all possible changes and then create summaries for review?
They could analyze possible changes - provide pro's and con's for each - and prioritize the ones that could make the biggest difference in drawing players based on a number of variables.
Having a practical, thought out, prioritized, organized analysis of potential changes to draw from will increase the chances something will actually get done, to try and prevent the decline. A starting point.

Tekill wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:10 pm

Zanniej wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:29 am However, long story short, I truly appreciate the initiative shown here. I'll update and sift through the list I summarized from your points earlier, and will do my utmost to help in bringing said changes.

The list of recommended changes has been spread out through this forum for about 15 years.
Some of these changes might actually have the affect of increasing the communities population.
It has been said that one person can not create change him/herself/themself.
Why not organize a group of interested persons to review/discuss/debate any and all possible changes and then create summaries for review?
They could analyze possible changes - provide pro's and con's for each - and prioritize the ones that could make the biggest difference in drawing players based on a number of variables.
Having a practical, thought out, prioritized, organized analysis of potential changes to draw from will increase the chances something will actually get done, to try and prevent the decline. A starting point.

Thank you, that's a very good suggestion. I was definitely looking to include as many people in it as possible, as I do not think I'll be able to think it all up on my own. There are many people way more knowledgeable on things than I am. I will just do my utmost to ensure things actually keep moving.

An organized analysis of potential changes is definitely a very good starting point. I made an initial attempt a few pages back, but could definitely use some help. If anyone feels called, feel free. And otherwise I'll give it another crack.

Honestly it seems like expecting 100% agreement from everyone will cause nothing to get done the vast majority of the time.

Getting even 50% agreement is a pain in the neck at those times when people are being quiet.

Forgive me for sounding pragmatic(or is it pessimistic?), but barring some miracle/act of the gods, I think it's rather unrealistic to anticipate server activity reaching even 50% of the numbers it used to boast. Quite frankly, and has been previously stated, this game is really dated. From an external standpoint, there are immensely better games out there to play(and perhaps more appealing places to roleplay, considering the populations on other online games/servers). Would advertising the server help at this point? It certainly couldn't hurt I suppose.

From an internal standpoint: there are things that really aren't working in BG's favor, but some aren't necessarily anyones fault. For example: The size of the server in relation to the size of the playerbase. Now I'm not one to usually complain about getting a whack of fancy new maps, but I feel like the timing of the server split/expansion couldn't have been worse. As much as I enjoy seeing new areas, parts of the server are absolutely daunting when it comes to simply going from point A to B. If I were a new player starting in BG city, I wouldn't last very long. Again, this isn't to cast blame, or complain, but when you have a player base of 30 to maybe 40 during peak hours, and half of those are huddled around the same 5 or 6 areas, then I'm afraid it's going to make for a very lonely and remote experience for the average player, new or old. Would putting a hold on, or even scaling back, the size of the server help at this point? I truly have no idea.

Now, I don't log on enough to have a real grasp on DM activity, but from my limited play time and observations, I see more happening on the forums than in game (and I can't say I blame anyone for that either, heck, I hardly want to log on, and seldom ever feel the urge to do anything but explore and loot. RP? eww). But I will say this, and I've said it dozens of times before: the best times I ever had on this server were from one off DM events, small plotlines, or guild outings. Huge over-arcing plots were alright... but mostly became draining in terms of forum responsibilities and playing the waiting game for the next installment. For soooo many years guilds were a huge aspect of the lifeblood of this server. Keeping guilds alive and active requires a HUGE investment of individual/group energy, so this one isn't an easy fix. At least not until BG regains some semblance of heightened player activity.

As for player retention, I don't really see an issue here. The same 30+ regular players that have been playing on BG for the last year don't seem to be going anywhere, and they seem capable enough at creating their own RP(on whichever of their numerous characters they choose to play on ). The regulars that are left seem quite accommodating as far as I can tell, and they seem to do the best with what they're given. To those players I say: kudos. Enjoy it for as long as it lasts, and keep giving attention to whichever wayward souls that happen to find their way here.

End rant.

Snarfy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 4:26 pm Forgive me for sounding pragmatic(or is it pessimistic?), but barring some miracle/act of the gods, I think it's rather unrealistic to anticipate server activity reaching even 50% of the numbers it used to boast. Quite frankly, and has been previously stated, this game is really dated. From an external standpoint, there are immensely better games out there to play(and perhaps more appealing places to roleplay, considering the populations on other online games/servers). Would advertising the server help at this point? It certainly couldn't hurt I suppose.

Advertisement will help, especially with the recent popularity of BG 3 buuuuut....

You're correct as far as im concerned. A lot of our issues stem from the janky, ancient NWN2. Especially when you look across the pond and NWN EE that current still gets updated, and even recently got and update directed at server hosts and creators to tighten up scripting stability and ease of use and overall server stability. It cant be undersold how much more popular for RP EE is. I find that the vast majority of players we lose are lost due to the communities on NWN EE.

DM SummerBreeze wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 5:24 pm

Snarfy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 4:26 pm Forgive me for sounding pragmatic(or is it pessimistic?), but barring some miracle/act of the gods, I think it's rather unrealistic to anticipate server activity reaching even 50% of the numbers it used to boast. Quite frankly, and has been previously stated, this game is really dated. From an external standpoint, there are immensely better games out there to play(and perhaps more appealing places to roleplay, considering the populations on other online games/servers). Would advertising the server help at this point? It certainly couldn't hurt I suppose.

Advertisement will help, especially with the recent popularity of BG 3 buuuuut....

You're correct as far as im concerned. A lot of our issues stem from the janky, ancient NWN2. Especially when you look across the pond and NWN EE that current still gets updated, and even recently got and update directed at server hosts and creators to tighten up scripting stability and ease of use and overall server stability. It cant be undersold how much more popular for RP EE is. I find that the vast majority of players we lose are lost due to the communities on NWN EE.

I could use some player actors on the trailers I'm working on.
Making 2 trailers: 1 evil themed, 1 good.
Feel free to hit me up.

I do agree that most people likely either quit or migrate to a more recent game like NWN EE. It certainly doesn't help that NWN2 isn't on steam either. Plus needing Script Extender to work the best it can.

There's just a ton going against it. The only realistic thing I can see us do is either migrate to NWN EE, wait for some miracle and have the same happen to NWN2 or migrate to something else entirely.

Otherwise we're a dying server in a dead game. Kind of depressing because BGTSCC is great. It is what it is.

Have some of you heard of the term self-fulfilling prophecy?

NWN:EE still looks like shit. And 3.0 mechanics are terrible…when compared to 3.5e.

Maybe it’s just that some need to vent their frustrations, I don’t know for sure of course. But bad attitudes lead to bad results.

BGTSCC is, right now, still here, still being supported, still providing a complex experience for role-play in the Forgotten Realms.

Don’t abandon it yet. Better, pick up on just one of the many ways to improve the situation, for yourself and for the community. Cheers.

Oh I'm sure BGTSCC will be around for years to come. And imho NWN EE looks godawful and I'd never play it even if BGTSCC migrated there.

Realistically speaking there will need to be something though, for sure. Which seems to be the thing V is working on.

Although most realistic is not expecting 100% agreement on something to be added to BGTSCC. That's kinda silly if true.

Yeah, as migrations go, I'm still holding my breath for Reliquary (now more than ever, tbh). I'd had my doubts before, given the scale of the project, but AoS really does seem to be getting close to the point where we could plausibly use it. Could give us a good lifespan extension there.