Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Apologies if this is already answered elsewhere, but I have yet to find it and especially with mechanics being what they are, I'm entirely unsure how to RP it. My question is this: What exactly is a curse?

Are the way of removing it and the durations of such spells the only ways they differ ICly? Take for example a spell like Baleful Polymorph which is not a curse and then compare to Clubbed Feet which is a curse. What gives?

If the answer to that is that clubbed feet is evil homebrew that makes even less sense than core spells, fine! But then how is it different from any typical curse?

Pimple wrote:Apologies if this is already answered elsewhere, but I have yet to find it and especially with mechanics being what they are, I'm entirely unsure how to RP it. My question is this: What exactly is a curse?

Are the way of removing it and the durations of such spells the only ways they differ ICly? Take for example a spell like Baleful Polymorph which is not a curse and then compare to Clubbed Feet which is a curse. What gives?

If the answer to that is that clubbed feet is evil homebrew that makes even less sense than core spells, fine! But then how is it different from any typical curse?

"A Curse is a powerful, negative magical effect. A curse is hard to remove. Only a handful of specialized spells can hope to remove even a weak curse. A more powerful curse needs great power to remove, if it's possible at all.

A curse, by itself, is not evil. Curses are often used as punishments or handicaps, by everyone, regardless of alignment.

Types of curses

Spell Curses-The simplest and most basic curse is the one created by the spell bestow curse. Other common spell curses are bestow greater curse, curse water, geas/quest,Laeral's crowning touch, and lesser geas.
Item Curses-Any mundane or magical item can fall under a curse, and pass that curse unto others that possess the item. Often this type of item is created as a trap by an individual, an accident, or the decay of time.
Family Curses-This type of curse often starts off as one of the other types, but changes over time to effect the whole family of the individual cursed. In some rare cases a powerful curse can be put on a whole family.
Undead-The existence of undead is a curse on life.
Divine Curses-This type of curse is inflicted on a person, place or thing in accord with a gods ethos. They are always powerful and often spectacular.
Unknowable Curses-This is the final catch all category for the wild and very powerful curses."

In terms of our game mechanics, Remove Curse either through a spell or as an enchantment on a magical object is the only way to rid one's self of a curse, or a cursed item.

There are spells that have detrimental, magical effects that are not considered curses - in terms of our game these spell effects wear off, whereas curse effects have to be magically removed, although some curses will wear off or disappear when you rest (thinking of Mummy curse here). For the sake of argument, I'll include spell effects which require Lesser/Greater Restoration to remove (which don't normally wear off) like Level Drain under a the broad umbrella nomenclature of what it is to be "cursed." Technically if an undead creature drains you of a level, it is considered a curse (see above) even though Greater Restoration and not Remove Curse is the cure...

Arkanis

How are drow sorcerer treated in Sshamath? I recall from reading that male warlocks and sorcerer are second class arcanists in general. Not sure anymore.

Drow of the Underdark wrote:Respected only slightly less than the priestesses of Lolth are the arcane casters. These are less numerous than clerics, but they still wield considerable power and are often males. Forbidden from pursuing careers as clerics, males with talent often become arcane casters to find a taste of some of the power that has eluded them. Wizards and sorcerers are found in nearly equal numbers among the drow, and the race’s superior Intelligence and Charisma works well for both. There are many magical societies and schools that tutor and train wizards, and sorcerous talent runs strong through the chaotic and inherently magical drow. Warmages are embraced and trained to serve as house wizards, and the most prestigious universities and noble houses turn out master wizards, archmages of power that rivals that of the high priestesses.

Nachti wrote:How are drow sorcerer treated in Sshamath? I recall from reading that male warlocks and sorcerer are second class arcanists in general. Not sure anymore.

Drow of the Underdark wrote:Respected only slightly less than the priestesses of Lolth are the arcane casters. These are less numerous than clerics, but they still wield considerable power and are often males. Forbidden from pursuing careers as clerics, males with talent often become arcane casters to find a taste of some of the power that has eluded them. Wizards and sorcerers are found in nearly equal numbers among the drow, and the race’s superior Intelligence and Charisma works well for both. There are many magical societies and schools that tutor and train wizards, and sorcerous talent runs strong through the chaotic and inherently magical drow. Warmages are embraced and trained to serve as house wizards, and the most prestigious universities and noble houses turn out master wizards, archmages of power that rivals that of the high priestesses.

(I cannot speak to, or rule on server specific lore surrounding Sshamath as it exists for us, only give my own opinion on what I can see/find in FR lore. This in no way is a DM ruling, or meant to set or circumvent server policy or lore surrounding our UD RP)

I found:

"The city is ruled over by the Conclave of Sshamath, a (patriarchal) oligarchy composed of one representative from each of the 8 schools of magical specialization, one who does not specialize, and one who is elected from among the more esoteric arcane practitioners (Elemental Savants, Deep Diviners, etc). The conclave rarely meets, preferring communication via spells.
Sorcerers, bards, and divine spellcasters are treated as secondary citizens because magic that is earned through work is much more respected than magic that comes naturally or from deference to another."

Paraphrased - "Drizzt DoUrden's Guide to the Underdark" pp.86-92 Eric L. Boyd, 1999
That said:

Khorl Krissellian is a sun elf sorcerer in the College of Divination in "Storm of the Dead: Lady Penitent, Book II" by Lisa Smedden and listed as a resident of Sshamath.

Oct 21, 2014 DM Ioulaum posted:

"The social standing of wizards should always be considered as one rank higher when compared against the rank of a sorcerer or bard. A wizard apprentice thus has as much authority within a school of magic as a graduated bard or sorcerer. Wizards can also progress further, and are the only Drow who qualify for leadership positions. Nonetheless, the schools of mages do accept non-citizen inhabitants into their fold. Non-citizens may teach and achieve the rank of Mage, but not Archmage. They never qualify for leadership positions within a School of Magic."

Although I think the DM was posting concerning non-Drow sorcerers, I believe the above statement is also true for Drow as it stands for distain wizards feel for sorcerers and warlocks.

"While the drow of Sshamath hold themselves above all other races, they do cede a modicum of respect to races capable of true wizardry. " p.91 "Drizzt DoUrden's Guide to the Underdark"

Again, a reference to true wizardry here would infer that sorcery and warlock magic is inferior, and socially treated as such regardless of race (although drow would consider a drow sorcerer superior to a non drow sorcerer)

" In an unending effort to outdo one another in magical artistry, Sshamath's sorcerers have created an oasis of vibrant color to rival the most brilliant sunset" p. 89 suggests that while they are thought of as lesser, sorcerers are not only tolerated in the city of Sshamath, but thrive despite being thought of as second class drow.

So, I am not 100% up on the ebb-and-flow of BGTSCC role play in Sshamath about the influence of sorcerers and warlocks, the lore would support the following:

1. Sorcery is tolerated, but not encouraged on social levels.
2. The city is willing to accept any positive contributions sorcerers wish to give it, but it won't influence the level of utter disdain for this form of magic.
3. Both drow and non drow sorcerers have found their way into influencing certain schools of magic because of OTHER traits/contributions - being a sorcerer does not necessarily exclude one from having a voice or being in a position of power and influence.

Drow are notorious for on one hand feeling superior to others (even of their own race) but using these "lesser" ones' power to further their own ends. In my opinion, a powerful drow sorcerer or warlock, while their version of magic is considered beneath the wizardly class, would not be prevented or repressed if the wizardly class could manipulate it or use it to their benefit.

If I were to make a drow warlock or sorcerer, I believe that I would RP the toon as attempting to further their own ends by associating with/helping out the ruling, wizards, and proving myself to be an invaluable ally. The benefit you get from this class is that you are not constrained by the (limited) drow "rules" surrounding the rigid hierarchy of the particular schools of magic - your character could be an invaluable help to any one of them, without having to adhere to their codes of conduct of belief as it pertains to being an actual member. The drawback would be that you could never, truly be a leader of a school of magic (based solely on your magical abilities); there would either have to be a level of deception and/or acceptance through charismatic, or power-plays for a warlock or sorcerer toon to gain power in a pure wizard school of magic. ((Frankly I think I would pay good money to see this happen... lol! JK))

Shoot, I'd be a perfect member of Bregan D'aerthe... if I were a warlock... or a sorcerer... just sayin'...

L'alurl abbil zhah dosstan

abbil Arkanis

DM Arkanis wrote:

Your best friend wrote:DM Arkanis, can you talk about female Drow in the clergy of Vhaeraun? I know masked traitors exist -- but I am curious what role they play, as the clergy is listed as male only in 2nd editions.

(Disclaimer: the following information is my opinion only and does not intend to set or circumvent server lore in any way. This is not a DM ruling, only Lore According to Arkanis.)

In my research I found, "Vhaeraun was the son of Araushnee and Corellon Larethian. He held the unique view among drow that males and females were equally valuable, and was primarily prayed to by those drow males who sought a better life than slavery under Lolth’s matriarchy, and that opposed it."

Faiths and Pantheons. (Wizards of the Coast), p. 114. ISBN 0-7869-2759-3.
Demihuman Deities. (Wizards of the Coast), pp. 36 & 37. ISBN 0-7869-1239-1.
A Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting Web Enhancement. (Wizards of the Coast), p. 12.
Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide. (Wizards of the Coast), p. 108. ISBN 978-0786965809.

"The shadows of the Masked Lord must cast off the tyranny of the Spider Queen and forcibly reclaim their birthright and rightful place in the Night Above. The existing drow matriarchy must be smashed, and the warring practices of twisted Lolth done away with, so that the drow are welded into a united people, not a squabbling gaggle of rival Houses, clans and aims. Vhaeraun will lead his followers into a society where drow once again reign supreme over the other, lesser races, and there is equality between males and females

Primarily I get two things from this: 1) males and females are equal in the eyes of this god, and 2) anyone looking to get away from Lloth/slavery can pray to him - the word EQUALITY suggests that females would be welcome members of his clergy as he was against matriarchy, not women.

Amongst his listed, known clergy in lore is Shakti Hunzrin, traitor-priestess of Lolth and Vhaeraun (1361 DR) Which was published after 2nd Ed. v3.0 came out in 2000, and v3.5 in 2003.

Tangled Webs. (Wizards of the Coast). ISBN 0-7869-2959-6. March 2003
Daughter of the Drow. (Wizards of the Coast), p. 212. ISBN 978-0786929290 - published in 2003 as well.

My understanding would be that v3.5 lore enhances 2nd Ed. and based on one female being in the clergy, and much other lore talking about equality, I would see no reason why females would not be considered eligible, and play full and equal roles to their male counterparts.

I have a message in to Elaine Cunningham who authored some of the paper-backs containing the lore to see if she will add anything to this discussion.

Arkanis

Elaine Cunningham got back to me on this. She "is an American fantasy and science fiction author, especially known for her contributions to the Dungeons & Dragons role playing game campaign setting of Forgotten Realms, including the realms of Evermeet, Halruaa, Ruathym and Waterdeep."

When I asked her about female members of his clergy, she said, "Shakti Hunzrin was a "traitor priestess," a sort of double agent, and the Powers That Be at WotC accepted this notion, so unless they've published something in 5E to contradict earlier material, I'd say go for it."

Right from the author of the lore!

Arkanis

Do we have potions to induce growth of head-hair?

Considering we have helmet-hairs now, such potions' existence can be the only way to explain some PCs' wild hairstyle changes by the day!

Hoihe wrote:Do we have potions to induce growth of head-hair?

Considering we have helmet-hairs now, such potions' existence can be the only way to explain some PCs' wild hairstyle changes by the day!

In a world where there is magic, anything is possible I suppose. Here are my Top Ten reasons that we could also account for wild hairstyle changes:

1. Gone to the hairdresser/barber in Sshmath or BG.
2. Spell failure. Involving electricity, shape-change, or poly-morph.
3. A good (or bad...) disguise.
4. Getting your buddy drunk, shaving a wild animal, and gluing the hair/fur to his helmet, or his chin/head/back...
5. Gone to the hag on the road to Ulgoth's Beard to give her a half eaten sandwich, and instead of declining the reward potion politely, you insult her, grab the potion, and walk away to maniacal giggling because, of course, it isn't a Heal Potion she gave you at all...
6. You've decided to take up the double-dare the party gave you, and you ate the Moon Moss.
7. You got hit by Colour Spray from the witch-doctor and the CN wizard in your party whispers a Permanency spell at you and now you look like something from My Little Pony.
8. You battled the Night King and lost. Now you have lovely, icy-blue eyes and white hair. And no soul... winter is coming. (too much...?)
9. You believed the Imp when he cast the Bull's Strength on you that unnatural hair growth was a side effect that would wear off in time.
10. You picked up the cursed helmet without Examining it first only to discover that not only can you not take it off, but the horse hair lining grows about four inches every day... and is resistant to being cut... (q.v previous post on Curses, how to identify them and remove them, volume 1)

Arkanis

Cats or dogs? Go!

mrm3ntalist wrote:Cats or dogs? Go!

I want to say that this is a tough one, but it isn't. Let me explain.

I get that there is a whole predilection to guys being pro dog and women being pro cat. Heck, my sister is, "the old cat lady" in her building even though she is three years younger than I, and I am definitely not old, but I digress... maybe because I am old... what was the question?

I love dogs. Grew up with a Shetland Sheep Dog (sheltie) all my life. Lovely, wonderful, cute little mini-collie dogs, who are shy but who have the deepest of devotions and demonstrate absolute loyalty. Loved them. Played with them. Snuggled, fought, and loved them. They came into my life: Kipi, Tucker, Charlie, Onyx, and they all left. They were all wonderful companions, and I cried when they all died. Call me a suck.

I love cats. The first pet that I ever had was a cat. Dodger - a Tabby. Thought that I could leash her and lead her around like a dog. I was wrong. She did what she wanted, went where she went, and did what she wanted to do. My five year old self hated that. My 45 year old self thinks that it is pretty neat. I have a pure-bred Himalayan cat now. Totally the "grumpy cat' Beautiful, and dumb as a bag of hammers. She likes to be snuggled on her own terms, not mine. She wants to drink out of MY water glass, not her dish. She eats cat food, and only cat food, but cries until I walk over to the food dish and stir it with my finger and pet her three times, not four! three! and watch her eat. I get cats. They are a**holes through and through, but, I can leave her for a week when I travel for work and she doesn't die, craps in the littler box, and despises me as much when I return as she did when I left.

A cat is independent, knows what she wants, had high demands and gives back little. She rules the proverbial roost and really doesn't care how you feel about her as long as you are there to provide food and petting, on her terms. Love dogs - loyal and stupid. Cats tell the truth though, so I gotta go with cat. Elven Cat if you need more specifics, but I am having a hard time finding players who will lower themselves to RP with a stupid cat, who may or may not be a poly morphed demi god... I dunno ;P

Good question. I am sure to hear much derision.

Arkanis

http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/tex ... ys/cd.aspx

This answer the question better .

Hoihe wrote:http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/tex ... ys/cd.aspx

This answer the question better .

or this

The Duel
Eugene Field

The gingham dog and the calico cat
Side by side on the table sat;
‘T was half-past twelve, and (what do you think!)
Nor one nor t’ other had slept a wink!
The old Dutch clock and the Chinese plate
Appeared to know as sure as fate
There was going to be a terrible spat.
(I was n’t there; I simply state
What was told to me by the Chinese plate!)

The gingham dog went “Bow-wow-wow!”
And the calico cat replied “Mee-ow!”
The air was littered, an hour or so,
With bits of gingham and calico,
While the old Dutch clock in the chimney-place
Up with its hands before its face,
For it always dreaded a family row!
(Now mind: I’m only telling you
What the old Dutch clock declares is true!)

The Chinese plate looked very blue,
And wailed, “Oh, dear! what shall we do!”
But the gingham dog and the calico cat
Wallowed this way and tumbled that,
Employing every tooth and claw
In the awfullest way you ever saw—
And, oh! how the gingham and calico flew!
(Don’t fancy I exaggerate—
I got my news from the Chinese plate!)

Next morning, where the two had sat
They found no trace of dog or cat;
And some folks think unto this day
That burglars stole that pair away!
But the truth about the cat and pup
Is this: they ate each other up!
Now what do you really think of that!
(The old Dutch clock it told me so,
And that is how I came to know.)

So I have a RP question I'd like some answers to: what exactly is the relationship between the Temple of Helm and the Everwatch Knights, the mercenary arm of the Helmite church?

Are temple clergy to be perceived as commissioned officers (eg. 2nd Lieutenant, Lieutenant, Captain, Major, etc etc), being able to command even the Head Watchknight of the Everwatch, with the rankings within the Everwatch itself regarded as non-commissioned officers (eg. Private, Corporal, Sargent, Staff Sargent, Warrant Officer)?

Any additional resources that can be provided (eg. sourcebooks or novels) would be greatly appreciated.

In addition, how do I deal with the actual ranks in the church hierarchy? 2nd ed. Faiths & Avatars (p.69) lists the following clerical ranks:

Novice
Adept
Trusty
Alert
Watchknight
Guardian
Overblade
High Watcher
Senior Steeleye
Supreme Watcher (pontiff - disused post since 992 DR)

Yet it says these apply after ToT, leaving me in a pickle as to what they were beforehand in our current time period.

Thanks!

(Originally posted here where I received no replies)

Tsidkenu wrote:So I have a RP question I'd like some answers to: what exactly is the relationship between the Temple of Helm and the Everwatch Knights, the mercenary arm of the Helmite church?

Are temple clergy to be perceived as commissioned officers (eg. 2nd Lieutenant, Lieutenant, Captain, Major, etc etc), being able to command even the Head Watchknight of the Everwatch, with the rankings within the Everwatch itself regarded as non-commissioned officers (eg. Private, Corporal, Sargent, Staff Sargent, Warrant Officer)?

Any additional resources that can be provided (eg. sourcebooks or novels) would be greatly appreciated.

In addition, how do I deal with the actual ranks in the church hierarchy? 2nd ed. Faiths & Avatars (p.69) lists the following clerical ranks:

Novice
Adept
Trusty
Alert
Watchknight
Guardian
Overblade
High Watcher
Senior Steeleye
Supreme Watcher (pontiff - disused post since 992 DR)

Yet it says these apply after ToT, leaving me in a pickle as to what they were beforehand in our current time period.

Thanks!

(Originally posted here where I received no replies)

I had to have some source material that I'd lent out couriered back to me so apologies for the delay in responding.

As ever, I would like to preface my comments with the fact that they in no way represent a DM ruling on this subject, or are meant to be considered the gospel truth. It is only my opinion on the questions asked, and if a DM ruling is required, please PM the DM team and request an answer.

Source material searched:

Julia Martin, Eric L. Boyd (March 1996). Faiths & Avatars. (TSR, Inc), ISBN 978-0786903849 pp 68-71
Douglas Niles (1990). Ironhelm. (TSR, Inc). ISBN 0-8803-8903-6.
Douglas Niles (1991). Feathered Dragon. (TSR, Inc). ISBN 1-5607-6045-1.
The Forgotten Realms Adventures pp 20-21 1990
Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting p. 242 1993
Cyclopedia of the Realms p. 11 1987

1. What exactly is the relationship between the Temple of Helm and the Everwatch Knights, the mercenary arm of the Helmite church?

I searched as much FR lore as there is which mentions anything at all about Helm and its church hierarchy and probably found the same amount as you did. Not much at all. Doug Niles DOES mention Bishops being called "Bishous" in Ironhelm which actually may be a good clue for us on the nature of the hierarchy of the church. This term in real life usually references the Christian church where there are local bishops in a diocese that oversee the clergy for a certain geographic area. Over them are arch-bishops, cardinals (college of) and a primate or prelate. As it pertains to your question, I believe that the specialty orders of Helm would be accountable directly to the head of the church - Senior Steeleye level, with delegation to lower levels depending on the mission that they were on. As Everwatch knights are an, “Affiliated Helmite Order a group of dedicated bodyguards whom Helmite temples hire out to others to generate revenue called the Everwatch Knights” the delegation of authority over the knights' would be given to the Bishous of the local area or equivalent for reporting. In terms of disciplinary matters, or overall mission purposes, my take on it would be that the local Bishous would send a query up the food chain to request advice or to pass along concerns. The relationship is that these ARE priests/knights of Helm and not mere mercenaries and that they are subject to the will of the church authorities. In the case of our game, the Everwatch Knights in BG would have been given a specific reason for being there, albeit maybe a vague one so that RP could ensue.

2. Are temple clergy to be perceived as commissioned officers (eg. 2nd Lieutenant, Lieutenant, Captain, Major, etc etc), being able to command even the Head Watchknight of the Everwatch, with the rankings within the Everwatch itself regarded as non-commissioned officers (eg. Private, Corporal, Sargent, Staff Sargent, Warrant Officer)?

In source material it is referenced that the clergy of Helm known each other by ranking in a military style, and therefore know where everyone sits in terms of authority. Temple clergy would not have the authority to command Everwatch Knights unless directed by the Bishous or equivalent. The Everwatch Knights themselves would have an equivalent ranking system among themselves - in terms of interpretation, I would say it would be role played on our server, based on level, time in the group, etc. etc. much like any other guild. I would view Everwatch Knights and other special order knights much like ancient Roman Praetorian Guard that not only guarded and protected the Emperor, but were subject to his authority.

There may be other provisions given within the structure and lore of our server that dictate otherwise, and I know that there are not a whole pile of Helmite clergy players in the guild these days so I have no one really to ask re: what do you guys do? If you have a specific scenario in mind, or are looking for a decision with regards to role play around this group, please PM the DM team and ask and we will get back to you.

Arkanis

I'm getting ready to start building the new interior for the Ducal Palace (AKA the "High Hall") and I was having trouble finding source descriptions, lore and information describing it. This was all I found so far... Do you know of any other official descriptions?

In Volo's Guide :

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... Palace.png
Thanks!!
Lisa

LISA100595 wrote:I'm getting ready to start building the new interior for the Ducal Palace (AKA the "High Hall") and I was having trouble finding source descriptions, lore and information describing it. This was all I found so far... Do you know of any other official descriptions?

In Volo's Guide :

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... Palace.png

Hidden: show

Thanks!!
Lisa

Hi Lisa - thanks for the question.

The short answer is that I cannot find much in the lore that is definitive or specific to the Ducal Palace. I did some research on "typical" medieval castles and came up with many common items. I would place the Ducal Palace somewhere on a timeline of England 1500-1700AD.

First, we know from Volo's that there are, "a dozen meeting rooms for people to use." The entrance to the Palace would be through a gate house - outer and inner, "the gatehouse was a fortified entrance, with numerous different doors and portcullises, tricks and obstacles, all used to guard the castle. It wasn’t uncommon to see two different gatehouses – one on the outer-castle, and one on the inner (if the outer one was breached)" and there would be some form of guard, ceremonial/real and someone to make sure that people got directions to where they needed to go. There would be a Chamberlain, or basically the Executive Director of the Palace there to make sure business was carried out.

Volo's also said that the walls were tall, with windows at the top, in most residences and it is logical to assume that the Palace would follow a similar design where, in common areas, the windows would have led plate stained glass. It would be tastefully decorated with a show of arms (various weapons on the walls, and suits of armor on the floor) but not ostentatious or over-done (to avoid thieves) and would be patrolled on a regular basis around the clock.

On the main floor would be the meetings rooms, off the Great Hall which doubles as large meeting/festival room, with an audience chamber/throne room/Great Chamber beyond, that has its own private/concealed/secret entrance for the Dukes to come and go without having to walk through the Great Hall.
Also on the main floor would be kitchens, bakery, and brewery - the bigger the more grandiose the host lords and ladies would be perceived. There would be a cellar where food was kept until needed, as well as wines and other spirits.

In the Baldur's Gate the video game, the Palace has a number of quests associated with it, and if you look shady, the Fist throw you out or try to kill you. I would say that there would need to be NPC guards in the hall similar to those who protect the bridge to the FAI who will put you in jail if you have a weapon drawn. There is also mention there of access to the city sewers from the dungeon of the Palace.

The upper floors would be the Dukes' residence, with library, baths, sitting rooms and/or parlors, music rooms, etc. as well as a certain number of guest rooms, usually in another wing. Servants quarters would be in the cellars as well as any storage.

Stables, smithy, bowyer/fletcher, practise area would be in the courtyards outside of the Keep or don-jon as it was called in the olden days.

So, this is in my opinion what a "typical" castle of this period would have. I would say there would also be a roof-top landing place for Griffons or Hippogriffs, some form of alchemy lab/wizards apartments, and there should be a private chapel for the Dukes', and their own, in-house clergy/priest.

Arkanis