Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Deathgrowl wrote:

WeWhoEat wrote: What I am trying to say is, the reason many people might not call a warlock on being a warlock is because it does nothing but spawn headaches.

Yes. After several experiences where people say "NO DON'T KILL THE DEVIL, HE'S HELPING ME!" and just generally don't understand the concept of pact mages, I just try to avoid those warlocks who don't seem to be all that serious and are generally just running and grinding.

Who wants to deal with trollish RP on a day to day basis? Hey, look at me, I'm a badarse warlock hanging around the FAI.

And people don't realize how much PvP destroys immersion. Someone who you have seen or have killed yourself on more then one occasion is walking around like nothing happened. Of course, in most situations, RP would call for a person to attack them on sight.

DM's also do not want players taking matters into their own hands. What orgorgon is asking would create a no win situation for players here.

Hitman Hard wrote:What's upsetting to me is... i logged on and i get several messages threatening to perma-strike my character which i did not agree to. This person went on further to say, if i did not stop my "campaign" against the elves she would see to it that my character was hunted down. I've had a few skirmishes with elves, do i actively hunt them on a daily basis? Heck no. I guess if you have a heated RP arguement with a few elves in Beregost, all goes to hell.

I believe that your characters perspective is relevant Hitman, that RP disagreement and possible implication of PvP altercation is simply a part of the game but you must also take into consideration your antagonists character perspective. If your character is RPing having killed elves for fun, or sport, and are intimating this on a regular basis to all elves around, well it would be breaking immersion for a wild elf hunter not to confront your character

So, let's say your character was then brought to PvP and was killed, sure that isn't going to change his view on elves. But, if your character just gets back up, proceeds to find the next elf he can find and antagonizes that elf with threats, well that just begins a downward spiral that is no good for anyone. If you want to participate in RP altercations, you must show a willingness to submit to the victor.

My elf had once been killed, brought to the Red Wizards guild house, tortured and left in the garbage in the back alley. I did not RP that he remembered any of that and he did not go on a vengeful strike against the Red Wizards, I lost and that was that. Enalyius is right, PvP conducted in a vendetta style campaign, if not done with both parties having an agreement in place, simply leads to griefing, plain and simple.

If you want to RP a hardcore Warlock, that is great but you must be prepared to accept hardcore consequences. That is why the Thayans are all application only and the Blood Claws are a bunch of veteran players who play with the understanding that people are going to look to pick a fight with them.

Please, don't take this as elves looking to make your play style unbearable. Although I was not one of the elves whom came into conflict with your player, several have taken notice of him. I believe in hardcore evil players and they should have a place on this server but I don't think half-assing a warlock instigating events without any real consequences is viable without disrupting the immersion of the environment you play in. Hell, that goes for paladins, or another hardcore provocateur style character

Maverick 40 wrote:

Hitman Hard wrote:What's upsetting to me is... i logged on and i get several messages threatening to perma-strike my character which i did not agree to. This person went on further to say, if i did not stop my "campaign" against the elves she would see to it that my character was hunted down. I've had a few skirmishes with elves, do i actively hunt them on a daily basis? Heck no. I guess if you have a heated RP arguement with a few elves in Beregost, all goes to hell.

I believe that your characters perspective is relevant Hitman, that RP disagreement and possible implication of PvP altercation is simply a part of the game but you must also take into consideration your antagonists character perspective. If your character is RPing having killed elves for fun, or sport, and are intimating this on a regular basis to all elves around, well it would be breaking immersion for a wild elf hunter not to confront your character

<snip>

Please, don't take this as elves looking to make your play style unbearable. Although I was not one of the elves whom came into conflict with your player, several have taken notice of him. I believe in hardcore evil players and they should have a place on this server but I don't think half-assing a warlock instigating events without any real consequences is viable without disrupting the immersion of the environment you play in. Hell, that goes for paladins, or another hardcore provocateur style character

First and foremost, follow Wheaton's Law.

Think first about the other person's enjoyment. Not yours. Then go from there.

That's why there's no girls on the server! Everyone is following Wheaton's Law and they just get bored...

Oh wait. Wrong. It's because there are warlocks.

I like to go by the "Keeping IC.. IC" rule. You can be a **** all you want IC but ooc you can be a really nice person

yes and that way we love Lisa she is a nice person

Only DMs can enforce a permadeath strike. And only DMs can approve an assassination. Which, indeed, must be overseen by a DM.

Although the DM team is talking it over a little bit, mostly as a thought experiment into how we can improve warlock roleplay on the server, I honestly do not see our server making any of the base classes "application only." While the DMs do try to ensure a certain standard of roleplay here on BG:TSCC, we try not to police roleplay that extensively.

After all, who wants to play a character that has basically been written for you? Creative control is important to making your character your own.

That being said, all in-character actions have in-character consequences, and one of the potential consequences of continued devil-summoning and undead reanimation (or just plain attacking people), at least in the lawful lands around Baldur's Gate, is execution. So think before you act. Would your warlock, being an intelligent human being (or humanoid facsimile) who probably values his or her own survival, behave in such a way that would march them towards the execution block?

If a thief is discreet with his or her theft, shouldn't a necromancer or a demonologist be equally (or more!) discreet with his or her behavior as well? At least when in mixed company, or in a place where such behaviors might cause them physical or financial harm?

Playing a believable evil character does not mean standing in the Trade Way, throwing around threats and blasting people in PVP. That's just playing a completely suicidal character.

I LIKE all the new warlocks. It makes it more interesting. Now the OSR and the other good guilds can have something to monitor and talk about. God help us if we run out of evil to fight against! I find the encounters I have had with warlocks to be quite fun and invigorating.

mrieder79 wrote:I LIKE all the new warlocks. It makes it more interesting. Now the OSR and the other good guilds can have something to monitor and talk about. God help us if we run out of evil to fight against! I find the encounters I have had with warlocks to be quite fun and invigorating.

This isn't the point at all. People may play as evil as they want. It's not about that. It's all the terribly OOC warlocks grinding, and running all the time, without any knowledge or understanding of the lore behind their class. That is the problem.

Lots of new people are playing warlocks .The best thing to do is to not restrict them, but to befriend them and allow them to grow RP-wise as we all had to do. More rules will just turn people off. Our community isn't exactly growing here. We need to nourish, not restrict our players.

mrieder79 wrote:Warlocks can't run?

Just as much as anyone else. Which means they should get exhausted at some point. They never stop running.

It's magic?

WeWhoEat wrote:I have had characters who have blasted invocations around me, and I have called them on it (granted, I was on my own warlock at the time, but Lilly is a hypocritical b^$# anyway). I got the standard answer: "You know nothing of me, not everybody is this way by choice, don't judge me, I am a good person and you are ignorant", and I was at the receiving end of a long-winded speech about how warlocks are no different than anybody else, and how I should not judge. By the end, I was banging my face into my desk.

Consider the possibility that those warlocks may be spewing the "standard answer" as an IC lie, similar to how your warlock hides behind her facade. To assume that they are simply RPing poorly, to assume that their PCs are not being perfectly IC, may be unfair to other players. I can think of one warlock that was actually prrreeetty evil, but ICly, she acted indignant about how people just didn't understand her, blah blah blah. And it worked, for a long while. It was all IC lies.

I'll admit though, that I actually feel the same way you feel, that a lot of the warlocks are just being crappy RPers. But that is an OOC mentality that gets in the way of staying IC. What DMogorgon said convinced me to give people the benefit of the doubt, and to try to stay away from OOC cynicism about other people's RP. I hate to say it, but I think we might be guilty of being "RP elitists."

So if the other warlock is spewing the "standard answer," and your PC does not find it plausible, then the obvious IC response would be to ignore his words and bring him down. I think that's the kind of IC action that people are afraid of taking, because of OOC concerns about PvP complaints.
As far as PvP complaints go, I feel like if there's no OOC hatred behind the PvP, it'll generally go okay. Once again, the key is to keep everything IC.

Just my two coppers.

Deathgrowl wrote:This isn't the point at all. People may play as evil as they want. It's not about that. It's all the terribly OOC warlocks grinding, and running all the time, without any knowledge or understanding of the lore behind their class. That is the problem.

That was my point exactly. You have lots of new warlocks who are flaunting their power in the open. I have seen it too. Warlocks are openly and flagrantly using their powers in areas with other toons. I think this is great because now all the good guilds have something to talk about and form responses too. Sure, maybe they could improve their RP. We all could. But it is nice to have an open display of evil to stir things up.

Running is something that I see everyone doing, so I think that is not relevant to the discussion.

Charraj wrote:Consider the possibility that those warlocks may be spewing the "standard answer" as an IC lie, similar to how your warlock hides behind her facade. To assume that they are simply RPing poorly, to assume that their PCs are not being perfectly IC, may be unfair to other players. I can think of one warlock that was actually prrreeetty evil, but ICly, she acted indignant about how people just didn't understand her, blah blah blah. And it worked, for a long while. It was all IC lies.

I'll admit though, that I actually feel the same way you feel, that a lot of the warlocks are just being crappy RPers. But that is an OOC mentality that gets in the way of staying IC. What DMogorgon said convinced me to give people the benefit of the doubt, and to try to stay away from OOC cynicism about other people's RP. I hate to say it, but I think we might be guilty of being "RP elitists."

So if the other warlock is spewing the "standard answer," and your PC does not find it plausible, then the obvious IC response would be to ignore his words and bring him down. I think that's the kind of IC action that people are afraid of taking, because of OOC concerns about PvP complaints.
As far as PvP complaints go, I feel like if there's no OOC hatred behind the PvP, it'll generally go okay. Once again, the key is to keep everything IC.

Just my two coppers.

+1. An IC answer to an IC problem. Lots of excitement and intrigue and something to talk about at guild meetings aside from who should get what ale for which member.