Should the quests be considered OOC?

[Snarfy]

Hey, introduce the idea someone mentioned with rules questions. 5 easy questions, 1500 xp per correct answer.

*shamelessly quotes himself*

A single quest given by an NPC in the nexus that asks players a series of 10 multiple choice questions(out of a pool of 50) that quiz them on the server rules. Each question correctly answered gives 1000xp, but if any single question is answered incorrectly it takes away all the xp accumulated by the quest, plus the quest ends and a bright pink and yellow clown hat is instead given as a reward.

The clown hat should be a cursed item, of course...

In all seriousness though, minus the sarcasm'arrific ideas of losing all the XP when you get an answer wrong and the clown hat(or were they sarcastic?... hmm), it's not the worst idea in the world. Plus, some players might actually learn a thing or two about the server rules! Imagine that. Still, I do rather enjoy having to invest the 2 - 3 hours to actually get the quest xp, plus the opportunity to come across other characters is much more fun than wandering up and down the Coast aimlessly and crossing my fingers that I'll find RP(which, more often than not, ends up being an exercise in futility).

[mrm3ntalist]

lower the general XP payout of mobs

Lower the mob xp even more that it is now?

I dont understand why people tend to make suggestions to punish other playstyles.( because lowering any more the mob xp is punishment, especially in the epics )

Is how the quests are completed that big of a deal? What is next? Not to run from one area to another? Remove the Scry? RP doing #1 and #2? Sync server time with real time? RP Sleeping... I can go on. What is important is to respect other players. All that have posted here, i know they do just that. So for me there is no issue with how each player considers the quests.

[Dagesh]

I wonder if I took a surface toon into the UD with the OOC tag on, that it pushes certain ideas at work here. Just a thought (although extreme).

Edit: I know it sounds silly but making everyone level 30 from the start totally takes care of the whole quest/grind thing for XP.

[Snarfy]

Lower the mob xp even more that it is now?

I dont understand why people tend to make suggestions to punish other playstyles.( because lowering any more the mob xp is punishment, especially in the epics )

If this is offset by raising the RP xp values, then I don't think it would be such a bad thing. The server is supposed to be, first and foremost, a role-play server. As it stands, nearly 50% of the players logged on are grinding/in grinding areas. In recent months the amount of time players seem to spend grinding has reached absurd levels. One might even argue that the grinding XP incentive punishes the tried and true role-players here

IMHO, having a server half-filled with grinders diminishes the overall role-play quality of the server... as we are literally populated with a swarm of unrecognizable characters in a persistent character-driven world. One needs to look no further than the scarcity and numerous departures of the truly gifted RP'ers of this server to see that the paradigm has clearly shifted over recent years, and this shift has taken us away from the RP-medium to heavy status it once enjoyed.

At worst... if we beef up the RP XP values, maybe that mass of unrecognizable characters will do a little more RP'ing while they wantonly slaughter everything that moves, and maybe... just maybe, it might breathe a little more character into our little world. And at best, we'll have a lot more characters congregating and having actual conversations with a little more depth and variety than "You want to go kill lizards?". (I jest... sort of)

As for quests, the posts in this thread have inspired me to vote for the first option, in that they are OOC. And I don't think they should be touched without the values of RP XP and mob-killing XP also being assessed.

[Steve]

lower the general XP payout of mobs

Lower the mob xp even more that it is now?

I dont understand why people tend to make suggestions to punish other playstyles.( because lowering any more the mob xp is punishment, especially in the epics )

Is how the quests are completed that big of a deal? What is next? Not to run from one area to another? Remove the Scry? RP doing #1 and #2? Sync server time with real time? RP Sleeping... I can go on. What is important is to respect other players. All that have posted here, i know they do just that. So for me there is no issue with how each player considers the quests.

It is really nice of you to pick just one part of THE TOTAL PICTURE I PRESENTED. I would expect better from you, mate.

[The Whistler]

Sorry if I'm verging on off-topic territory but I thought I'd add my 2¢. A server I used to play on had a bonus exp mechanic. What this did is that it would award players 1500 bonus exp per day, stacking up to 10.500 total. For as long as your pool remained undepleted you gained exp at twice the usual rate, subtracting gained exp from the total pool. It was a nice catch-up mechanic for more casual players and at the same time it discouraged grinding 24/7, although it didn't punish it.

Besides the daily tick you could also replenish your bonus exp via RP exp, which was added to the pool in its entirety. As for the OP, I think thids nailed it with his post.

[chad878262]

I suggested this a while ago, RoD had it and I thought it could benefit or server by having quests one time and then awarding that xp by bumping up rp or combat xp until depleted. Not saying it will never happen, but as this thread shows there is such a huge range of what different people want that it makes the likelihood of any change low. Personally I think it solves a lot of issues since if no one is running around doing quests, but knows they can gain double rp xp awards up to the 7-10K weekly cap it encourages them to actively sell said rp...

[mrm3ntalist]

It is really nice of you to pick just one part of THE TOTAL PICTURE I PRESENTED. I would expect better from you, mate.

Maybe it was my bad for not quoting the whole post, maybe you are overeacting. In any case, here is the whole quote.

Personally—and especially since Rasael found a way to fix the RP XP exploit—I would prefer changing Quests to be 1 time affairs to give new Players an experience of the breadth of the Server, triple the output of the RP XP generator, lower the general XP payout of mobs but toughen then quadruple the payout of Bosses (pro-grouping aspect), loosen the grip on DMs handing out RP XP awards, and...institute a better system for Permadeath, so all these "gains" have some more meaning in the life/experience of our playing these toons.

Still, i would say the same thing. Asking for XP increase for the style you prefer and asking for something you dont like to be decreased, is not right for me.

If this is offset by raising the RP xp values, then I don't think it would be such a bad thing. The server is supposed to be, first and foremost, a role-play server. As it stands, nearly 50% of the players logged on are grinding/in grinding areas. In recent months the amount of time players seem to spend grinding has reached absurd levels. One might even argue that the grinding XP incentive punishes the tried and true role-players here

IMHO, having a server half-filled with grinders diminishes the overall role-play quality of the server... as we are literally populated with a swarm of unrecognizable characters in a persistent character-driven world. One needs to look no further than the scarcity and numerous departures of the truly gifted RP'ers of this server to see that the paradigm has clearly shifted over recent years, and this shift has taken us away from the RP-medium to heavy status it once enjoyed.

At worst... if we beef up the RP XP values, maybe that mass of unrecognizable characters will do a little more RP'ing while they wantonly slaughter everything that moves, and maybe... just maybe, it might breathe a little more character into our little world. And at best, we'll have a lot more characters congregating and having actual conversations with a little more depth and variety than "You want to go kill lizards?". (I jest... sort of)

As for quests, the posts in this thread have inspired me to vote for the first option, in that they are OOC. And I don't think they should be touched without the values of RP XP and mob-killing XP also being assessed.

I joined the server on 2012 and since then i keep hearing about the "old days", about "great RPers", about how the RP was so great "back in the day" etc. Since 2012, considering everything that has happened ( Steam, Obsidian dropping support ) this server is as strong as I first joined. Even in 2012 i remember big groups grinding the whole server, I remember the quests being done the same way it is now, the xp system being the same, I remember players talking about how RP should be, how we should RP more etc. Basically, the same shit on a different day... even today.

So the past is good, we can learn from it but thats it... its the past. To hear that today you cant find RP on the server is difficult to believe. There is good RP happening all day. Personally speaking, there are times that I wish I could get out of RP and do something else for a change. If indeed that is what happens for you, maybe try a new main character or get involved with something else... i dont know.

As far as the numerous departures of the "truly gifted RP'ers", thats life. Some will go away, others will come. The server is setup the same way as before, so they definetely did not leave because of the quests, or the RP xp, or the grind XP. They left because they had their reasons and its normal. New players join but because the game is an old one, its has been difficult lately. However a good percentage of those new players stay...

Sorry if I'm verging on off-topic territory but I thought I'd add my 2¢. A server I used to play on had a bonus exp mechanic. What this did is that it would award players 1500 bonus exp per day, stacking up to 10.500 total. For as long as your pool remained undepleted you gained exp at twice the usual rate, subtracting gained exp from the total pool. It was a nice catch-up mechanic for more casual players and at the same time it discouraged grinding 24/7, although it didn't punish it.

Besides the daily tick you could also replenish your bonus exp via RP exp, which was added to the pool in its entirety. As for the OP, I think thids nailed it with his post.

I played on that server (ToA) as well and I agree with Whistler that it is a fair XP system. If it was up to me I would have implemend this.

[Karond]

If this is offset by raising the RP xp values, then I don't think it would be such a bad thing. The server is supposed to be, first and foremost, a role-play server. As it stands, nearly 50% of the players logged on are grinding/in grinding areas.

Like how punishing certain character concepts through xp is steering us towards some concepts, I think improving RP xp does the same, doesn't it? It drives you towards more of a social server. Not adding any judgment in that though.

Yet, I can only look to my own personal experience. If I play a dwarf, IC it makes the most sense for me to be spending most of my downtime in Kraak Helzak. However, if I do that in a world where RP xp is king, I would not gain much if any xp at all. Like popular grinding spots, people would just gather where most people are. They already do that now to a certain extent. For all the talk about being truly IC, even from some of our more hardcore roleplayers, that's an OOC action to maximize social interaction. I mean, there is a reason most guilds don't stay in their home areas much except for private guild meetings and would rather hang out in FAI/BG and it has virtually nothing to do with IC behaviour.

The people that go out looking for roleplay sure doesn't put up their tent and campfire in some distant rarely visited area. They'll put them up where there is always traffic, and that decision is OOC as well as the traffic itself is OOC (quests areas, best grinding areas etc.).

If I've a solution? Well, probably not. I've been thinking since I started playing NWN2 that conflict is key, a purpose for logging in and roleplaying even at 30; goals to strive for, work together for and so on and to see the world evolve. I'm however not confident in that vision, because whenever I raise it I feel like that the world is divided by social players and achievment players, and they find their purpose in that rather than conflict or interaction with the environment.

[Steve]

... is not right for me.

Is that not how it always goes? One Player feels and/or thinks one way, another Player another way? So where do we differ?

Well, some commentators in this thread are simply Players, some are QC, some are DMs. Who really has a vote towards enacting a change?!?

That said...I'm sure we all can envision a host of changes to BGTSCC that would suit our "style." Some valid, some not (based on realistic conditions). But considering the great divide between public discussion versus private...and the extent from which opinions are valid–or not–based on clique-y groups and organization....

Yeah, just make a frickin' ruling and let's move on.

[duracele]

Since the thread has derailed like 5 pages ago i want to give my opinion on xp gains.
The weekly quest runs imo add nothing to immersion in the world. Not for the one doing them nor for others who might be watching the same. The problem with replacing it by an automatic amount of xp gain seems to me is how to prevent people from levelling 10 aliases with 10 times weekly xp gain for nothing. If possible this could be tied to cd keys. So only once a week no matter how many chars/ accounts you have.
The spawn xp seems fine to me at least on the surface. In ud it`s really a hastle already. You have exactly one area in which you can gain decent xp in epic level (lava cave that is, not a big one as well).
As for rp xp: Make it easier to get that. Let the script trigger more frequently and up the reward. It MIGHT be a missperception. But i am pretty sure the script somehow starts to go wild after reaching level 30. Noticed this on different Pc`s now. As soon as i get them to 30 the rp xp comes more frequently and with bigger reward.

[Rhifox]

I'd personally just like to see the current quests made one time only, and to then make up for the weekly exp by adding some form of repeatable quest that makes sense as a repeatable endeavor. Something like weekly spell research for casters, martial training for warriors, etc. It could be initiated by a dialogue option in the new player options menu coming in the next update.

[burbles]

Some of quests make sense being repeatable, if with a slight change of wording: getting stock for Maltz, wyvern's eggs, lizards eggs, etc. are things you can do over and over again. But some are ridiculous: finding a ###th bracelet (or key) - anything that has a sense of Groundhog's day should by all means be one-time only. And more quests needs to be added of the kind you can do repeatably (not weekly!) as an alternative to grinding and a reason to party. Right now partying for many characters are OOC and immersion breaking, if you are not hard-core dungeon-looting adventurer or a slaughtering maniac. You all know what I mean, you realy do.

Let there be more scripted little things you can do without DM present, but which give characters ways to do ther work: like going for crafting supplies into safe and dangerous areas, performing services for people (healing, patroling, performind literaly, etc.), researching stuff, whatever. Like, we have a crafting bench which turns beetle shells into gold or cheap potions. It's very niche right now. And you can sacrifice a gibberling heart to Malar for XP (even if you're Good) - again, very niche. You can farm hearts, but Grinding will give you moar XP, so no point in doing it (even if it wasn't against the Rules to farm XP).

The manner, in which characters can get XP is one that defines a lot on how the game is played. If we didn't need XP no one would grind for XP - a simple logic. We need XP to play the game, because you need XP to become as powerful a character as you with to have those abilities you wish. Including social skills...

RP XP has a cap - why? Fishing RP has a cap - why? Grinding XP has no cap - it's fine. If it had, well, what to do then?
Have a PC, which is a trader - a crafter, a performer, etc? Go adventuring anyway, instead of spending most of your time at your trade. For a meager XP, yes - like we have from fishing - but being IC and reaping your rewards, which is better than making up a reason to join a slaughterfest in some woods. RP XP system we have now is a joke and a bad one.

I played on one server, which had it's falacies and I don't play there anymore, but it had realy decent RP XP, which netted more than monsters and was on par with quests. Quests were mostly unrepeatable, but there were LOTS of them, for all levels. What killed that server is that it was imposible to solo, while it being a lore heavy setting of Middle Earth, AND administrators being d-bags. Imagine, 1-6 people in a world you can't solo (or powerbuild, gish, at all!) grind or quest or even survive as a low lvl with virtualy no DM presence. But since there was a strong (not perfect) crafting system, which gave solid XP, had a great RP script that would realy award RPing, always more quests to do, if you're not going for crafting supplies - which alone was a major stapple for Partying and RP - those 1-6 people could have a fun time playing. I say this, because the "success" of that server was not an achievement of admins, but the way system was set up, and that some people have built the world for them in which you can go different places and pursue your trade, while having a meaningfull interactions with other playes. I realy disdain a "RP" of standing and yacking all day long, but hey - someone disdains Grinding all day long! But grinders can get their XP, while people RPing anything other than looting and grinding maniac cannot after a cap is reached.
I won't be for limiting monster xp, I'd rather have RP and "crafting" (Fishing) cap removed or expanded... Caping those make no sense. They are naturaly "capped" by time you can spend at those activities.

Right now we have a strong Powerbuilding community. Makes sense, since building for XP gain and Lootz from monsters is way to go. And then we have dedicated RPes. But we don't have RPing majority and Grinding\Looting minority.
What Social RP we can have on the server, for example? Can you RP being a merchant and not deal in the same Lootz from dungeons? A crafter? A sage even, a researcher? No.
I don't mean we need to add all these things, but the reality is such - PCs are adventurers and looters first. Exceptions only prove this. So, at least for those kinds of quests, they better be less... maddening. Like, you know, "Hello, Lady Adora, how is you bracelet today, stolen? Oh, I've returned it 6 days ago, see you tomorrow!"

[Steve]

I won't be for limiting monster xp, I'd rather have RP and "crafting" (Fishing) cap removed or expanded... Caping those make no sense. They are naturaly "capped" by time you can spend at those activities.

The RP XP generator has a fault, which can be exploited to gain the Limit in 30 seconds or less. As it appears Rasael has been able to fix that, there is now an open door to debate the Limit.

However, I will say that a RP XP generator does not account for quality, only quantity. That adds a level of complexity to any decision on RP XP being an actual reward.

Fishing RP has a Limit because there a keyboard scripts players have used in the past to keep their Toons casting while the Player goes out for cheese dogs. Which again, puts into question the "reward" a Toon/Player is receiving for...what, exactly?

Maybe one could debate that Fishing is also an OOC activity, really, since it's motivation is for gaining XP, and not at all to become level 30 Fishermen or BG's best fishmonger.

I consider that Why grinding kills is unlimited is because the majority of Skills/Feats/Professions available in this Game reflect a violent, disruptive and particular existence...for our Toons.

It's not like there is a Fishing Rod Specialization Feat.

If we really want to go there, one can debate that ANY activity our Toons repeat more than a handful of times is OOC driven. If Quests are repeated solely for the XP, then provide the XP some how in another manner, more open and possible to gain by all character concepts, then essentially, the status quo will remain, HOWEVER, we players won't have to continue to support these disturbing OOC actions.

[DM Ioulaum]

My own stance is that the AFK sign means: "Away from keyboard". It does not mean you are out-of-character. The golden rule is: You are expected to be in-character while in the game-world. That is what other players and DM's are entitled to expect.

I tolerate people doing quests out-of-characterly because this is a game. As do most other players.

That said: tolerance is not an invincible shield.

I feel that other players and NPCs may challenge you on your presence somewhere, particularly if they alluded to the fact that they were following you, or otherwise involving you in on-going roleplay. Regardless of whether you had an AFK sign up.

In the past we have treated PvP and rumor mongering due to quests that way. Live and let live. I'd follow precedent on that.