Up CL for PC crafted potions/scrolls to CL 25.

[selhan]

Using up Xp to craft...is gonna kill crafters and their Rp's

[DaloLorn]

Though even then, I want to add XP costs to discourage the use of pocket crafters.

Although I agree with you most of the times on the changes you do, I must tell you this time that this is unnecessary: people don't do elixirs that much anymore, and those that do rarely make profit for it - not on auctions.

The moment we start to penalize players "Because they must not do this", you have to do three things imho:

1) you keep it as it is;

2) you remove it entirely, especially if the patch will make it harder than it should;

3) you give it a quantity limit of elixirs/potions/whatever that can be crafted every 24 hours.


Having potions to cost XP, even if used in PnP, is not a popular choice. I've seen it done on another server and literally nobody wanted to deal with it. How would this be different? (I'm asking.)

Do we want to limit the little crafting we have? If so, might as well remove wands and potions entirely.

Crafters right now are forced to make virtually no net profit on their products because it's easier to make a throwaway crafting alt than it is to fork up the extra gold. The other day at the FAI, Celia was asking Sirion to give her a ~50% discount on a high-level summoning scroll which he was already selling at cost, and was rightly rebuked for it.

Adding a second dimension to crafting costs - whether it be XP, components, time, or some mixture of the three (keeping in mind, though, that any time limit would be enforced by CD key) - gives crafters room to decide what they want to charge. And with RP XP easier to obtain than ever before, any player that actually plays their crafter should be able to meet the minuscule XP costs needed to craft consumables without breaking a sweat.

[Steve]

...actually plays their crafter

If scrolls and potions could get a CL production bump, players would be less incentivized to make an alt to make some extra gold. Or...maybe not so extra.

[DaloLorn]

...actually plays their crafter

If scrolls and potions could get a CL production bump, players would be less incentivized to make an alt to make some extra gold. Or...maybe not so extra.

Less incentivized how exactly? Because most crafter alts (which generally service their owner, not the open market!) are capable of casting CL25 spells or above anyway.

[Steve]

Less incentivized how exactly?

If one doesn't need to have an ellixir making alt in order to have + 15 CL consumables, then, no need for that alt.

[Steve]

Ima just gonna bump this thread with a heavy ELIXIR INFLUENCED dose of necromancy sauce.

And look...I was even being conservative in the past, with a CL 25 request (25% chance of failure to Greater Dispel). Scroll Scribing should be uncapped, as in PnP, there is no cap.

29 CL for Scribing scrolls is another alternative to uncapped (5% chance of failure to Greater D).

Also possible to redesign the whole system to include Mishaps and also the PnP rules for reading scrolls.

Why keep this CL 15 artificial cap?

Cheers.

[blazerules]

...actually plays their crafter

If scrolls and potions could get a CL production bump, players would be less incentivized to make an alt to make some extra gold. Or...maybe not so extra.

Less incentivized how exactly? Because most crafter alts (which generally service their owner, not the open market!) are capable of casting CL25 spells or above anyway.

The only realistic way to combat crafter alts is to have it be tied to playtime somehow. So it tracks how long you are actively online and crafting takes hours out of that pool. There's no good way to deal with the occasional only online to craft character otherwise without annoying actual active crafters

[Steve]

If scrolls and potions could get a CL production bump, players would be less incentivized to make an alt to make some extra gold. Or...maybe not so extra.

Less incentivized how exactly? Because most crafter alts (which generally service their owner, not the open market!) are capable of casting CL25 spells or above anyway.

The only realistic way to combat crafter alts is to have it be tied to playtime somehow. So it tracks how long you are actively online and crafting takes hours out of that pool. There's no good way to deal with the occasional only online to craft character otherwise without annoying actual active crafters

Scribe scroll needs its costs reevaluated. It also costs XP in PnP. Both “taxes” that would defeat having an alt scribe, unless one is musing over coin and XP!

But at that point, if that’s your game play, you’re just running many alts and farming in general the Server.

Which is sorta another more meta conversation about gameplay on a
RP server. Happy to have that in another thread!

[blazerules]

Yeah. The only thing a crafting alt wouldn't have is frankly active playtime so that's realistically the only thing you can hit quite easily.

I can see XP being annoying for crafter characters but they can get it via RP XP.

[mrm3ntalist]

Its alright to play a fantasy game, but making decisions based on fantasy - not so good.

Here is a reality check


I really wish the game that I really like had hundreds and hundreds of players where there will be all kinds of different classes and all kind of markets. But it isnt. I will not make a crafter and wait for the 20 or even worse 9 active players once a week to RP my character as a crafter. Nor I will waste my time trying to find a crafter or scheduling for different time zones. ( unless you consider buying and selling from the auction house RP )

Imposing more and more restriction to try to make some function of the PW valid when the player count is so low, not only it will not really change anything, but can even discourage newer players to stick with this PW. In the mean time, all veteran players with alts can more or less "live" with those restrictions and keep doing what they are doing.

Cool ideas but based on a fantasy there is enough population to support them.

[Steve]

Its alright to play a fantasy game, but making decisions based on fantasy - not so good.

Here is a reality check


I really wish the game that I really like had hundreds and hundreds of players where there will be all kinds of different classes and all kind of markets. But it isnt. I will not make a crafter and wait for the 20 or even worse 9 active players once a week to RP my character as a crafter. Nor I will waste my time trying to find a crafter or scheduling for different time zones. ( unless you consider buying and selling from the auction house RP )

Imposing more and more restriction to try to make some function of the PW valid when the player count is so low, not only it will not really change anything, but can even discourage newer players to stick with this PW. In the mean time, all veteran players with alts can more or less "live" with those restrictions and keep doing what they are doing.

Cool ideas but based on a fantasy there is enough population to support them.

If my wizard could scribe scrolls that other characters would actually purchase because the CL was reliable to balance the cost—like l elixirs—I’d be IG using this as means to profit IC, both with direct sales and via the Consignment (since it is or should be considered IC yet staff seems unable to commit to it).

But CL 15 scrolls aren’t a good investment when CL 30 elixirs (only!) exist to monopolize the market.

GOAT has been bought by the Elixir Lobby!!!

[Rinzler]

There are already way too many consumables to begin with. In my opinion, we need substantially less access to UMD and non-UMD consumables, not more. Increasing the CL of potions of scrolls would just trivialize the content more than it already is.

I would, however, be in favor of being able to attune spell use/day items to your characters CL - similar to staves.

[Steve]

There are already way too many consumables to begin with. In my opinion, we need substantially less access to UMD and non-UMD consumables, not more. Increasing the CL of potions of scrolls would just trivialize the content more than it already is.

I would, however, be in favor of being able to attune spell use/day items to your characters CL - similar to staves.

Wouldn’t attunement just make only casters more powerful? Maybe with attunement comes a coin or xp cost.

One way to reduce consumables would be to have them removed from NPCs, since the server is currently designed like a 7/11 Amazon WalMart.

[mrm3ntalist]

There are already way too many consumables to begin with. In my opinion, we need substantially less access to UMD and non-UMD consumables, not more. Increasing the CL of potions of scrolls would just trivialize the content more than it already is.

I would, however, be in favor of being able to attune spell use/day items to your characters CL - similar to staves.

What do you mean by "too many"? You really only need a couple of essential wands and maybe one or two elixirs. Banning wands and elixirs is the only effective option but even then, it's important to consider which types of players such changes will affect the most.

Will it affect you and me? I dont think so.

As for scrolls, yes there should be going up to CL30, no doubt about it. The pnp people should be up for it, balance people should be up for it to since there is no reason not to, when thinking about all the other changes ( attunement and elixirs mostly )

[Rinzler]

My point is that every melee build with 30 bab is walking around like a gish.

Improved Mage Armor
Mirror Image
Greater Heroism
Death Ward
Shield
Concealment
Lesser Mind Blank

The above are all basically standard and I’m sure I’ve forgotten some. Then you can add in elixirs/scrolls.

So no, I’m not a fan of CL 30 scrolls. Especially because you can dip rogue and max UMD now.

As for Steve’s comment on attuning items, I don’t think being able to use my ring that gives vampiric feast 1x day at full CL is a huge tip on the power scale relative to what’s available to non-casters above.

Edit:: iPhone autocorrect