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Re: Is Sorcerer actually a very weak class?
Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:48 pm
by Rinzler
metaquad4 wrote:I doubt we would get people RCRing into sorcerers on mass, even if sorcerers got bonus feats.
Going a blackguard dip for its full potential (Auto-Still+Divine Shield) requires a significant investment in feats (3 epic feats, 3 pre-epic feats. 1 less pre-epic feat for paladins, 1 more level investment for them). Even if they got bonus feats, people will be taking PRCs (which means that people won't have the hypothetical bonus feats in their entirety, just like wizards).
Added to that, it helps that while sorcerers require CHA and INT (for skill points), wizards can dump CHA (which doesn't serve them) and focus on INT (even more skillpoints). Sorcerers have one less stat dump.
And yeah, for gishing, clerics/FvS make far superior gishes. They have a lot of powerful self-buffs for AB and damage and they don't need as much of a feat/PRC investement to make it worthwhile. Plus, they can achieve a 30 CL (making dispels unlikely at best). The above is very correct in that. Get yourself a mirror image wand, a displacement item, and you have covered the two defenses you are missing out on.
Exactly - Evil sorcerers are essentially eliminated. Cleave and Power attack for a Sorcerer to get BG to gain the same attributes Sorc / Pally would get without wasting 2 feats?
No thank you
Re: Is Sorcerer actually a very weak class?
Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:51 pm
by chad878262
Not quite so simple. Blackguard is superior to Paladin for some builds, be it that you need that extra level or don't want an XP penalty for multi-classing if Paladin or Sorc is not the favored class.
And of course one must consider the RP associated.
Re: Is Sorcerer actually a very weak class?
Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:00 pm
by Young Werther
Divine shield is what your going for so power attack is needed anyway. Pick up that aura of despair for -2 saves and you just waste it on cleave which seems fair.
Re: Is Sorcerer actually a very weak class?
Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:08 pm
by Rinzler
There are workarounds but it's a point added in the Wizard column in my opinion.
Re: Is Sorcerer actually a very weak class?
Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:15 pm
by Young Werther
With a sorcerer in a random DM event you might be better off just by improvisation whereas in a dungeon you've ran 89 times you will have the perfect spell book for. Limited Rest is a factor in good DM events.
Re: Is Sorcerer actually a very weak class?
Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:10 pm
by metaquad4
You can have a spell book that lets you do anything, but that requires knowledge of the server. Eventually, you begin to even learn what spells DMs generally ask for or will be willing to use (hint: Certain divination spells are among the most used in events in my experience at-least).
I've prepared both wizard and druid spellbooks on my characters, and helped clerics prepare their spellbooks in the past, all to great success.
A general spellbook that can fulfill any purpose very well can be created by any of the classes. Clerics (I find) are the easiest, followed by druids, then followed by wizards. You can get enough offense to handle most things (sometimes you have to conserve and let others fight, but that is part of playing a caster too) fairly well, enough defense to keep yourself alive, and enough utility to participate in events.
Re: Is Sorcerer actually a very weak class?
Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:17 am
by Lockonnow
how about call it a spellmind they dont use a books
Re: Is Sorcerer actually a very weak class?
Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:40 pm
by V'rass
Sorceror is not weak... you just need to build em right and choose the right spells.
Re: Is Sorcerer actually a very weak class?
Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:00 pm
by BlueAce417
I'd like to see Sorcerer-only feats to help bump their playstyle. When it comes down to it, it's in their blood. But Sorcerers mechanically are like Wizards with fewer spells but more mana. I'd love to see something like the Bloodline Examplar class that Kaedrin came up with.
Bloodline Examplar class:
http://nwn2customcontent.wikidot.com/bloodline-exemplar
Re: Is Sorcerer actually a very weak class?
Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:31 pm
by Lockonnow
BlueAce417 is that a real ADnD sorcerer prc?
Re: Is Sorcerer actually a very weak class?
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:16 am
by Archaos
EDIT: Bloodline Exemplar is a buff to the Sorcerers by giving them extra feats, slots and skills.
But I'd rather see native changes instead of more PrCs.
Re: Is Sorcerer actually a very weak class?
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:17 am
by Lockonnow
you cant Archaos couse then it will be a wizard so you have to pick the prc tha tis now