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Re: Game Mechanics Discrimination
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:08 pm
by Sun Wukong
NegInfinity wrote:Rask wrote:Lets roll the server back to 2009-2010 and let the Drow raid the surface for kills/slaves and conquest. I am fully prepared to die to our new drow overlords.
That would mean less drow hugging and more drow hating, which is a good thing, no?
The days when two drow characters used to pop up on the surface and then get driven back down under when more than half of the surface population went after thime, while the streets of Sshamath got filled with surface characters, and these things kept repeating day in and day out regardless of DM actions and server resets?
Re: Game Mechanics Discrimination
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:57 pm
by Sun Wukong
A side notice, I just found a way out of the Underdark and all the way to the surface, all on my own... Sure, it was bit sad that I could not loot the Ogre Cave chests and all that, or get experience. But there was my drow, staring at the sun... at long last.
UD has way more chests in a much closer proximity. Honestly, if you want to make coin, do your loot runs in the UD. Not to mention that you can sell things for 1400 gp in Glouras, which is the very first area you can spawn into from Nexus... And how pretty much all merchants of value are within few transitions of each other.
I am kind of feeling that it is the surface characters that are disciminated with the game mechanics.
Not to mention... that so much of the Underdark not being populated... I cannot help but to run into people there. *Sighs...* I WANTED TO BE ALL ALONE! Thus, I might return to be solely a surface player... or something.
Re: Game Mechanics Discrimination
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:34 am
by Sun Wukong
And another update, the underdark and surface should be seperated. The generic drow player cannot be trusted to handle PvP in any capacity. A few days ago, some drow wizard picked a fight in the middle of nowhere, and now I had some high level character of a long time player beat up my character for purely OOC reasons. Weee.... What a quality of 'RP'...
Thus, lock up the underdark, keep the realms seperated. The drow players are not mature enough to see the sun.
Re: Game Mechanics Discrimination
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:11 am
by NegInfinity
Sun Wukong wrote:NegInfinity wrote:Rask wrote:Lets roll the server back to 2009-2010 and let the Drow raid the surface for kills/slaves and conquest. I am fully prepared to die to our new drow overlords.
That would mean less drow hugging and more drow hating, which is a good thing, no?
The days when two drow characters used to pop up on the surface and then get driven back down under when more than half of the surface population went after thime, while the streets of Sshamath got filled with surface characters, and these things kept repeating day in and day out regardless of DM actions and server resets?
Then allow drows to go to surface, but forbid surfacers to go to underdark.
Given population disparity that would be fair.
Drow for all practical purposes are a monster race, and being hunted on surface would work for them. So allowing them to terrorize surfface will be fair.
However, low UD population will not be able to faciliate proper response to surfacer invasion without DM intervention.
When UD reaches population equal to that of Surface, allow cross-realm travel for everyone.
Re: Game Mechanics Discrimination
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:19 am
by Sun Wukong
NegInfinity wrote:Drow for all practical purposes are a monster race, and being hunted on surface would work for them. So allowing them to terrorize surfface will be fair.
And that has been done before. DMs used to port bunch of drow to the surface every now and then, where these drow avoided the epics like plague and went straight to areas with surface lowbies because they knew that they could score a PvP 'win' against them.
The encounter of a group of drow for the first time might be something exciting, something new, something unexpected and who knows how it will play out... Except that you will soon have the 3rd, or the 17th, encounter with the exact same group of drow...
You will hear this:
'
Ol zhah natha shinduago jaluk, lest jiv'elgg lu'elgg ol whol jivvin!'
And you want to respond with this:
'
Nindyn vel'uss telanth lu'kampi'un drommon ph'waele. Sevir uns'aa maglust.'
Re: Game Mechanics Discrimination
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:45 am
by NegInfinity
Sun Wukong wrote:Except that you will soon have the 3rd, or the 17th, encounter with the exact same group of drow...
Either do your job and get them permastriked in the name of good, or do your job and join the dark side in the name of awakening tharizdun.
Re: Game Mechanics Discrimination
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:01 am
by Sun Wukong
Not everyone plays under a singular character or even a login, and the player base itself is somewhat limited. Thus if someone tends to play when the drow play, it is not necessarily dedicated harassment from the part of the drow. Even if the DMs see an effort to make sure that the group of surface raiders have different members every single time, one drow surface raid does not exactly stand out from the other.
Anyhow... Were I the head DM (and I will never become one even if you point a gun at me), I would look into the direction of the Drow city of
Sshindylryn.
According to the wikia page, Sschindylryn lost a war against Menzoberranzan and the defeat caused an almost complete demilitarization of the city. On our server, it might not have happened yet or have been due to Menzoberranzan, which is located three times further away than Sshamath. Even if there is a direct straight tunnel between Sschindylryn and Menzoberranzan, it is still a long distance to march and leave the city of Menzoberranzan undefended.
Thus, how about a drow related server wide DM event where the city of Sschindylryn opens its portals to raid settlements and cities in underdark and surface alike. Surface adventurers could have drow NPC raids to slaughter, and underdark adventurers from Sshamath could have new areas where they in turn could attack and raid Sschindylryn's forward portal camps. Not to mention that adventurers from underdark and surface alike would have a common enemy to work against, which allows for a far better range of role-play than what a drow surface raid does.
Not to mention that were Sshamath to win, the following quote from the wiki would make a lot more sense as the the result of the demilitarization: "
Sschindylryn enjoyed, for a Lolth-ruled city, rare political and social stability that resulted from the ruling priestesses' inaction in regards of following Lolth's philosophy of strife, as well as economic stability and power which the male-dominated merchant class has built through surprisingly peaceful means."
Underdark map:
Re: Game Mechanics Discrimination
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:46 pm
by adobongmanok
Sun Wukong wrote:A side notice, I just found a way out of the Underdark and all the way to the surface, all on my own... Sure, it was bit sad that I could not loot the Ogre Cave chests and all that, or get experience. But there was my drow, staring at the sun... at long last.
UD has way more chests in a much closer proximity. Honestly, if you want to make coin, do your loot runs in the UD. Not to mention that you can sell things for 1400 gp in Glouras, which is the very first area you can spawn into from Nexus... And how pretty much all merchants of value are within few transitions of each other.
I am kind of feeling that it is the surface characters that are disciminated with the game mechanics.
Not to mention... that so much of the Underdark not being populated... I cannot help but to run into people there. *Sighs...* I WANTED TO BE ALL ALONE! Thus, I might return to be solely a surface player... or something.
And another update, the underdark and surface should be seperated. The generic drow player cannot be trusted to handle PvP in any capacity. A few days ago, some drow wizard picked a fight in the middle of nowhere, and now I had some high level character of a long time player beat up my character for purely OOC reasons. Weee.... What a quality of 'RP'...
Thus, lock up the underdark, keep the realms seperated. The drow players are not mature enough to see the sun.
Thus, how about a drow related server wide DM event where the city of Sschindylryn opens its portals to raid settlements and cities in underdark and surface alike. Surface adventurers could have drow NPC raids to slaughter, and underdark adventurers from Sshamath could have new areas where they in turn could attack and raid Sschindylryn's forward portal camps. Not to mention that adventurers from underdark and surface alike would have a common enemy to work against, which allows for a far better range of role-play than what a drow surface raid does.
As I mentioned in other threads, surfacers get to play in Disney World whereas UD people (not just drows) gets to play at their local circus. If that doesn't make anymore sense, another good analogy is surfacers get to play BGTSCC.net whereas UD people can only play JEGS module with infinite gold but single player and they only have 3 maps (The pain room, torture, and the shop). I can assure you, it gets boring pretty quick with 3 maps to play with.
As for the Drow Wizard, I thought that the standard procedure here is that when someone doesn't follow the rules, they have to be brought to the DMs directly and not post in forums to vent their anger? I could say the same thing that a surfacer came to UD a few weeks ago and just started PVPing, "such quality surface RP". If there's a problem, it should be brought up to the DM.
As for the City of Sschindylryn, good suggestion, but I think the server doesn't have enough map space to allocate a new map(???). There has been talks about new Lolth City but it has yet to come to its fruition.
Re: Game Mechanics Discrimination
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:06 pm
by NegInfinity
adobongmanok wrote:Sun Wukong wrote:A side notice, I just found a way out of the Underdark and all the way to the surface, all on my own... Sure, it was bit sad that I could not loot the Ogre Cave chests and all that, or get experience. But there was my drow, staring at the sun... at long last.
UD has way more chests in a much closer proximity. Honestly, if you want to make coin, do your loot runs in the UD. Not to mention that you can sell things for 1400 gp in Glouras, which is the very first area you can spawn into from Nexus... And how pretty much all merchants of value are within few transitions of each other.
I am kind of feeling that it is the surface characters that are disciminated with the game mechanics.
Not to mention... that so much of the Underdark not being populated... I cannot help but to run into people there. *Sighs...* I WANTED TO BE ALL ALONE! Thus, I might return to be solely a surface player... or something.
And another update, the underdark and surface should be seperated. The generic drow player cannot be trusted to handle PvP in any capacity. A few days ago, some drow wizard picked a fight in the middle of nowhere, and now I had some high level character of a long time player beat up my character for purely OOC reasons. Weee.... What a quality of 'RP'...
Thus, lock up the underdark, keep the realms seperated. The drow players are not mature enough to see the sun.
Thus, how about a drow related server wide DM event where the city of Sschindylryn opens its portals to raid settlements and cities in underdark and surface alike. Surface adventurers could have drow NPC raids to slaughter, and underdark adventurers from Sshamath could have new areas where they in turn could attack and raid Sschindylryn's forward portal camps. Not to mention that adventurers from underdark and surface alike would have a common enemy to work against, which allows for a far better range of role-play than what a drow surface raid does.
As I mentioned in other threads, surfacers get to play in Disney World whereas UD people (not just drows) gets to play at their local circus. If that doesn't make anymore sense, another good analogy is surfacers get to play BGTSCC.net whereas UD people can only play JEGS module with infinite gold but single player and they only have 3 maps (The pain room, torture, and the shop). I can assure you, it gets boring pretty quick with 3 maps to play with.
As for the Drow Wizard, I thought that the standard procedure here is that when someone doesn't follow the rules, they have to be brought to the DMs directly and not post in forums to vent their anger? I could say the same thing that a surfacer came to UD a few weeks ago and just started PVPing, "such quality surface RP". If there's a problem, it should be brought up to the DM.
As for the City of Sschindylryn, good suggestion, but I think the server doesn't have enough map space to allocate a new map(???). There has been talks about new Lolth City but it has yet to come to its fruition.
Yeah, it would be great if instead of complaining about someone's behavior on the forums (which seems to have become a bad tradition), people actually brought this up to DM team to enforce IC ocnsequences.
And you're correct about drow city. I recall mentions that BGTSCC hit module size limit quite some time ago, and since then there were attempts to reduce number of maps and not increase them. Couple of areas ahs been removed as a result (for example chrontiar are between triel and forest of sharp teeth, triel itself, etc).
Re: Game Mechanics Discrimination
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:13 pm
by Sun Wukong
adobongmanok wrote:As I mentioned in other threads, surfacers get to play in Disney World whereas UD people (not just drows) gets to play at their local circus. If that doesn't make anymore sense, another good analogy is surfacers get to play BGTSCC.net whereas UD people can only play JEGS module with infinite gold but single player and they only have 3 maps (The pain room, torture, and the shop). I can assure you, it gets boring pretty quick with 3 maps to play with.
In my experience it is the complete opposite. Surface, you can have a full server and not run into a single soul for hours. While in the Underdark, there is always someone doing something... So I guess if you expect FAI campfire in the underdark, just go to the FAI campfire with a 'drow' looking moon/wild/wood/sun elf like many already do.
adobongmanok wrote:As for the Drow Wizard, I thought that the standard procedure here is that when someone doesn't follow the rules, they have to be brought to the DMs directly and not post in forums to vent their anger? I could say the same thing that a surfacer came to UD a few weeks ago and just started PVPing, "such quality surface RP". If there's a problem, it should be brought up to the DM.
I have better things to do than to upload screenshots to some image hosting site, and send PMs on the forums about the same old people doing the same old nonsense year after a year.
Anyhow, if you have been on the server for a long time, you will know that some people have their PvP related issues. They just cannot take a loss, and so they either complain OOC:ly to their buddies, or seek vengeance on their own with an alt. For such people it is easy to come up with some 'within rules' excuse for the PvP - and
most of the time they are smart enough not to state the OOC vengeance as the reason for the PvP
directly to their victim. Well, most of the time...
Anyhow the drow and the PvP they bring have been constant thorns at the side of the server from day one. It is not a nice cup of tea for everyone - or even to a noticiable minority of players - and the less the server has it - the better off I think it is.
adobongmanok wrote:As for the City of Sschindylryn, good suggestion, but I think the server doesn't have enough map space to allocate a new map(???). There has been talks about new Lolth City but it has yet to come to its fruition.
Could be just slight adjustments to old maps, maybe some 'drow' based mobs.
Re: Game Mechanics Discrimination
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:59 pm
by Sun Wukong
Deleted post by mods (planehopper).
Re: Game Mechanics Discrimination
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:12 pm
by NegInfinity
Sun Wukong wrote:
B is male, and after 'whar' B was toggled hostile and beaten up in a matter of few rounds.
Cool, you've run into an idiot. Congrats, it happens.
Now why are you posting it here instead of bringing it up to DM team?
DMs make people that misbehave disappear. Not forum discussions.
Sun Wukong wrote:
Come to the underdark for the setting, and leave it behind because the above happens everyday!
And why are you posting disinformation, exactly? This doesn't happen every day. I had UD characters.
Zero PVP encounters so far.
Re: Game Mechanics Discrimination
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:36 pm
by adobongmanok
Sun Wukong wrote:I have better things to do than to upload screenshots to some image hosting site, and send PMs on the forums about the same old people doing the same old nonsense year after a year.
Anyhow, if you have been on the server for a long time, you will know that some people have their PvP related issues. They just cannot take a loss, and so they either complain OOC:ly to their buddies, or seek vengeance on their own with an alt. For such people it is easy to come up with some 'within rules' excuse for the PvP - and most of the time they are smart enough not to state the OOC vengeance as the reason for the PvP directly to their victim. Well, most of the time...
Anyhow the drow and the PvP they bring have been constant thorns at the side of the server from day one. It is not a nice cup of tea for everyone - or even to a noticiable minority of players - and the less the server has it - the better off I think it is.
Sure. Don't we all got something more important than reporting one or two rule breakers? Yeah according to forums rules, if you have grievance against a player, bring it up directly to the DMs. So as the surface lovers like to throw at UD people: please follow server and forum rules and protocols. *attach meme*.
Going back to topic, just because you had one bad experience, that doesn't mean that sums up the UD experience. Sure, that ruined UD experience for you, but there are other good RP players there that actually follow rules and yet, they don't get called out. That's because, usually people just comment on bad things. And this mechanics change really hurts them.
Re: Game Mechanics Discrimination
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:52 pm
by professiondude
Perhaps we can have a whitelisted server where you have to take a test on (somewhat) memorizing the server rules so before you get in the server and break rules even if you're a newbie or an alternate account of a banned account, you have to be in voice chat with 2 DMs and answer random server rules to stop all this "Rule breaking drow! argh" - "Metagaming surfacers! argh!" nonsense.
New rules: Follow the rules, if you fail to follow the rules, month ban.
Oh? You broke the rules and broke one of our sacred rules that make this server a better place than the rest? Month ban. No tolerance here.
I'm sure i've screwed up a few times but this server needs some punishment to whip the sissies in shape.
Re: Game Mechanics Discrimination
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:31 pm
by Valefort
The rules aren't complicated nor long, this is getting old. "Don't remain on the side where you don't belong", so complicated, so long !
I still fail to see how the script hurts Underdark players when they were not supposed to take root on the surface anyway. Either it doesn't impact you or you broke the rule often (perhaps I should have logged the killing and looting done on the other side to let DMs dish out justice instead of this ? I'm sure it would have gone smoothly !). In the end it is a pretty mild script enforcement of a server rule... and a pretty sad thing that needed to be done because DMs cannot be present all the time to catch people who are doing stupid things (I can't believe this point has to be repeated ad nauseam).
Also players do not report such things much either, hence a script who is always there (and dumb sometimes, yes, small price to pay).
If you want new areas for the Underdark I suggest contacting Cubicle, opening your toolset and rolling up your sleeves.
