Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

How much gp would you have to earn as a head of household to provide for yourself, a spouse and two children for one year while living in Baldur's Gate?

MrPsion wrote:How much gp would you have to earn as a head of household to provide for yourself, a spouse and two children for one year while living in Baldur's Gate?

There are a lot of variables to your question I am not certain of, so I'll need to make assumptions to for many kind of answer:

First assumption is that there is housing available in BG - are you renting a room, or own an estate? Physical space is at a premium, and while there is existing housing on the map, I don't know what is owned by the Dukes, and what is available for sale/rent, and if there are any form of monetary property taxes collected.

This leads to the second assumption: cost of living there would vary on the type of household you wanted to provide for yourself. Renting a room vs owning a large estate with servants is a broad spectrum.

Let's then assume for the sake of this discussion, that there is an apartment that is available to rent on a monthly/yearly basis that would be adequate space for you and your family to live in - not post, but not rat infested either. In game hotel room rents out for 1-10 gp a night (let's say) with longer stays getting a discount. Let's count your rent at 100 gp a month and that covers everything except fuel for cooking and warmth - water supplied by the city communal well.

Next, you'll need to eat. Living in a town means you either forage-a-field for game, or you buy things from merchants in town. Your occupation will dictate the free time that you have to go out and hunt your own food, so let's say you have to purchase everything, with the occasional special meal hunted for. Assuming food is freely available (i.e. there is no famine, war, food rationing, etc.) I would expect that the average person could eat to survive for 1-2 gp a day, let's say a family of four could live on 4-5 gp a day for food, or 150 gp a month.

After this you will need clothing, and supplies to run a household (wash soap, a broom to sweep the floors, candles, furniture, coal/wood for the fire, etc.) Without listing off a complete grocery list, let's put household supplies and miscellaneous expenses at 30 gp a month (after initial big purchases, furniture, decorations, etc.)

This brings us to 280 gp a month with nothing assigned for entertainment, owning a horse or livestock and needing to provide for them, emergency purchases (oh no, the goblins are coming, I need to buy a sword type of thing.)

This puts us at 3360 gp a year for the bare necessities - roughly 9 gp a day to survive. Could you do it for less? Probably, by getting food from one of the local churches, and living on hand me down clothing, etc. - there is always room to pare the number down depending on what you could live without.

This is all also assuming, that the Duke's don't have additional monetary or goods and services taxes added on, i.e. you are a blacksmith, and in exchange for a cut in rent on your shop, you have to make "x" number of weapons for the Dukes each year, and that you have a decent land-lord.

Were you able to purchase a house, there would also be additional costs for repairs and maintenance.

If you worked in a skilled trade, you might also have to purchase raw goods to make your wares, i.e. the baker needs flour, the tailor needs cloth.

Ark

5e has an interesting table just about this. I know this isn't a discussion topic but it could be an interesting read!

http://engl393-dnd5th.wikia.com/wiki/Expenses


At the end of the day, the value of gold in game is not the same as in lore. PCs have a lot of gold. It would make more sense if each coin was consider a copper but it isn't. Trying to make the value of coin realistic is quite hard here.

Glowfire wrote:5e has an interesting table just about this. I know this isn't a discussion topic but it could be an interesting read!

http://engl393-dnd5th.wikia.com/wiki/Expenses


At the end of the day, the value of gold in game is not the same as in lore. PCs have a lot of gold. It would make more sense if each coin was consider a copper but it isn't. Trying to make the value of coin realistic is quite hard here.

Excellent observation. I remember in 1st ed Dungeon Master's Guide there being lists of "what things cost" with copper, silver, electrium, gold, and platinum pieces. Our game has "simplified" this to just gold, but in a more refined accounting, the "what can a family live on - modestly" broken down in fractions of GP would be a better answer.

Ark

1. If you could describe a few of your fellow DM collegues personas IG with a Meme each. How would it look like?

2. In the area this server is set in. What UD cities is in the vicinity that are counted as Lolthite cities?


3. How do you measure the radius of an enchanted forest?

4. What do you call a bard with a lot of hit points?

5. Who gives the best hickeys?

Those are questions that keep us up at night...

Darker_Thought wrote:1. If you could describe a few of your fellow DM collegues personas IG with a Meme each. How would it look like?

2. In the area this server is set in. What UD cities is in the vicinity that are counted as Lolthite cities?

3. How do you measure the radius of an enchanted forest?

4. What do you call a bard with a lot of hit points?

5. Who gives the best hickeys?

Those are questions that keep us up at night...

Truly, some mind benders here.

1. What's a meme?

2. Sschindylryn is the closest Llothite UD city to Sshamath, followed by Ched Nessad.

3. Enchanted is defined, "If you are enchanted by someone or something, they cause you to have feelings of great delight or pleasure. " Therefore the size of a forested area that could be considered to be enchanted would directly correlate to the area in it, in which you would have feelings of great delight or pleasure. This of course would be completely obfuscated due to individual, and subjective interpretations of what "great delight or pleasure" means to them. Enchanted, also has a meaning of something magical - a forest destroyed by magical means could therefore fall under the definition, although it might only bring feelings of great delight or pleasure to the High Priestess of Talos who destroyed it... enchanted forest - size unknown.

4. A CON artist, of course.

5. The Heartwarder of Sune most definitely would give great hickeys although only in places that you couldn't see. Another great hickey giver would be the priest of Sune who'd been turned into a vampire and struggled with their moral imperative of beauty vs. the undead state they now find themselves in... think I am channeling, "The Cleric Quintet" WotC books now...

Ark

I have a intricate question of Drow Rankings within Noble houses I would like to hear your reasoning on;

1. The Ranks of The Masters of the House;
Qu'el'faeruk - House Wizard
Qu'el'velguk - House Assassin
Qu'el'saruk - House Weapon Master

These are in norm generally given to male members of the Qu'ellar. A female through normally not looked well upon, could inhabit the art of the arcane or any non-divine ability that puts them in any of these three.

What are your thoughts on if this is a good idea or not? I Am well aware that "if" a female would be given one of these ranks she would outrank any other male of the other positions due to her gender. But I can still not come to terms with if this would make things overly complicated and "non-canon-drow" or if it is a good idea to allow, on this particular subject, more flexibility.

What are your thoughts?

Edit: Clarification; This is meant for the Lolthite area in Eryndlyn. So in a Lolthite ruled Noble House. (PM sent to you Arkanis)-Sorry for the missunderstanding.

Darker_Thought wrote:I have a intricate question of Drow Rankings within Noble houses I would like to hear your reasoning on;

1. The Ranks of The Masters of the House;
Qu'el'faeruk - House Wizard
Qu'el'velguk - House Assassin
Qu'el'saruk - House Weapon Master

These are in norm generally given to male members of the Qu'ellar. A female through normally not looked well upon, could inhabit the art of the arcane or any non-divine ability that puts them in any of these three.

What are your thoughts on if this is a good idea or not? I Am well aware that "if" a female would be given one of these ranks she would outrank any other male of the other positions due to her gender. But I can still not come to terms with if this would make things overly complicated and "non-canon-drow" or if it is a good idea to allow, on this particular subject, more flexibility.

What are your thoughts?

I like to start with the disclaimer that this is my opinion only and not a DM ruling on this subject.

Well, first of all in terms of "rank" or power within Drow houses it varies city to city, house to house. Not all houses are female-ruled or where the woman are viewed as superior to men. Sshamath is a city ruled by a male-led conclave. The Women vs. Men "theme" (for lack of a better word) in Drow lore and interaction is driven by the Drow gods - Lloth definitely has an all female worshiper based leadership, and as Lloth has no real official standing within Sshamath - the male wizards found ancient artifacts and took over centuries ago, and as I cannot find anything in the lore that specifically forbids female Drow from holding positions within Sshamath society, I don't see why Drow women could not hold these "non traditional" roles as you mention above, without any perceptions of outranking other males in the house.

Arcane power rules in Sshamath not an evil Drow goddess, and there are female wizards in the lore within and throughout the ranks in the city hierarchy. In my opinion, they are not elevated or venerated based on gender, but rather based on their power.

Vendui, Arkanis

Edit: Clarification; This is meant for the Lolthite area in Eryndlyn. So in a Lolthite ruled Noble House. (PM sent to you Arkanis)-Sorry for the missunderstanding.[/quote]

OK outside of Sshamath...

Fundamentally the answer I gave speaks to what you're looking for - in Drow houses where Lloth is the venerated goddess, unless there were an absence of males, OR there were some "divine" wish, females would generally not take on such mundane tasks as weapons master or house wizard. It is not totally forbidden, or unheard of, but power in the Llothite society is derived entirely from the noble houses' contingent of priestesses and/or the perception of power/Lloths favor. Why would you waste a female on wizarding, when you have a whole pile of males who can waste their time learning it, and provide you with arcane magical stuff? Drow, Llothite worshipers care only for more divine power and nothing for the arcane arts outside of their usefulness for defense, etc. I could actually see a punishment for a female to be demoted or relegated to some routine task that keeps her away from the temple areas. Finally, you'd be correct in your assumption that any female in one of these roles would vastly out-rank any male simply because of her gender - she might be on the outs with the matron mother with respect to not being a priestess, but she certainly would be considered much more than a mere male.

Aluve, c'rintri

Arkanis

Arkanis,

according to "Outfitting the Pepperwreck", the following is the material cost of operating a vessel purely on the personnel side.

• Hardtack: 2.21lbs/per person/per day
• Water: 6.61lbs/per person/per day
• wine/rum: 2.21lbs/per person/per day
• meat: .55 lbs /per person / per day

How many gold pieces is 1 lbs of each of the listed elements?

Please list prices adjusted for BG inflation.

For the Sea Seeker RP I did, I made the following assumptions.

0.5 gp for hardtack
0.1 gp for water
4.0 gp for wine/rum
2.0 gp for meat

Are my values over or underestimation of costs?

Hoihe wrote:Arkanis,

according to "Outfitting the Pepperwreck", the following is the material cost of operating a vessel purely on the personnel side.

• Hardtack: 2.21lbs/per person/per day
• Water: 6.61lbs/per person/per day
• wine/rum: 2.21lbs/per person/per day
• meat: .55 lbs /per person / per day

How many gold pieces is 1 lbs of each of the listed elements?

Please list prices adjusted for BG inflation.

For the Sea Seeker RP I did, I made the following assumptions.

0.5 gp for hardtack
0.1 gp for water
4.0 gp for wine/rum
2.0 gp for meat

Are my values over or underestimation of costs?

It looks like you have really done some great research - I had a glance at the document in the link and it is very detailed.

A couple of things to consider.

1. There is often some kind of mariner's guild or merchants who sell dockside to the ships moored there. They will have "standard issue" food and water as you describe, often sold at discounted rates to what the general public would buy because ships buy larger quantities.
2. You can always go and find other merchants to sell you things cheap and in bulk. Sign a contract for supply of alcohol and spirits for example. What is sold in game cannot be less than 1gp for each single drink, and we all know that if there are 300 glasses of beer in the keg, that the brewer isn't selling it to the tavern for 300gp each keg.
3. When you are buying food and water in bulk, you are not buying things in single-serve packaging - the water would be in wooden barrels, not in individual glass bottles, for example. This saves on storage, and significantly on cost because there is less "packaging." I've seen what the naval supply guys buy and how it is arranged to maximize space on board ship and there is quite a lot of spatial engineering going on.

The document you are using for a baseline seems to take this into consideration, and so the question of what it would equate to on the server would really come down to some form of negotiations with the merchants providing the goods.
I'd say take a look at your crew manifest, figure out what everyone needs per person per day to survive on, multiply by the number of days your voyage at sea might take, taking into consideration availability of supplies at other ports of call along the way and the fact that you might pay more to restock mid trip. Then find a merchant or merchants and negotiate based on quantities. In the game we have skill checks that can be done, appraise, bluff, intimidate, etc. and if you were looking to kit-out your ship for a sea voyage, that you could RP it out. Your figures are Ok in terms of what to budget, but I would definitely try to get a better deal rather than taking it all as a hard and fast.

All in my opinion only of course.

Admiral Arkanis

Oh mighty Arkanis, if you could use the NWN2 builder, Kaedran Pack, using BG rules, what build would you make yourself as in real life?

TeoDeathDealer wrote:Oh mighty Arkanis, if you could use the NWN2 builder, Kaedran Pack, using BG rules, what build would you make yourself as in real life?

Wow, just ONE build...?

Here is the Top Ten Builds Arkanis would make (if I could) IRL

10. Druid. I'd just walk around in the forest poly-morphed into a bear and steal people's picnic baskets...
9. Wizard. Just to mess around with Criss Angel, and find out if he uses real magic or not...
8. Bard. All bard, all the time. Become a really famous musician to hid the fact that, in fact, that I am really, really weird. When you're rich, weird turns into eccentric... and I would giggle every time one of my songs came on the radio, or I realized people had purchased it, and sing along to it... hehehe
7. Priest of Talos. Yes! Destroy! Cause Chaos and destruction... muwahahaha...! Oh wait a minute, I probably wouldn't make it past 3rd level before blowing myself up... ok, forget this one.
6. Ninja. I would wear black all the time, and have wicked fast reflexes and HIP abilities... I would dual class with something like cleric, and be a Priest of Oghma or Deneir so that I could be the wise, sneaky ninja, who uses funny puns and things when he assassinates his victims...
5. Barbarian. I'd be uber buffed and wear furs and such, and go for the Brenden Fraser thing in, "Encino Man" and hang out at ComiCon's just to hear people say, "wow great costume, dude" and, "his CosPlay is soooo awesome... really, no one could be that dumb..."
4. Priest of Sune. Start my own church and move to California and live in a commune by day, and wicked night club partier by night. Move over Hefner my mansion is bigger...!
3. Hospitaler. Become a world-famous surgeon who seems to have miraculous healing powers (well, who DOES have miraculous healing powers) and devote my life to serving the less fortunate.
2. Rogue. All thief, all the time. Make the Ocean's movies look like childs play while I scour the earth for hard to steal treasures. I would also have to have a massive underground fortress of some kind as a base of operations and unlimited cash so that I could actually do all of it...
1. Spirit Shaman. I'd put a modern spin on the whole voodoo-witch-doctor thing, and be really cool, Check the bones! Dance around a campfire in a mask. Oh, and ride a Harley... yeah, gotta have the Hog...

Arkanis, Man of a Thousand Faces

Does the traditional dislike of women on ship exist in Faerun? If yes, is it prevalent on the Sword Coast?

Hoihe wrote:Does the traditional dislike of women on ship exist in Faerun? If yes, is it prevalent on the Sword Coast?

I do not know of any written FR lore that states that women are bad luck or disliked aboard sailing ships.

The WotC fantasy novels by RA Salvatore feature female characters on board ships and I don't recall any negative imagery:

Passage to Dawn
Sea of Swords
The Pirate King

There are also female pirates; Sheila Kree captained the Bloody Keel.

My interpretation of how the Forgotten Realms works is that men and women are equal, and that there is no gender-bias, at least none that I ever remember seeing, and therefore I cannot see why women would be disliked on ships.

I am open for discussion on the topic though - these are only just my views and aren't intended to be any kind of lore or DM ruling.

Arkanis