Coming Soon: Discussion Thread (2017)

[Steve]

for shaman it is the armor and shield enhancements.

Spirit Shaman doesn't get any armor or shield spell buffs, only a deflection limited to +4. What you refer to is Cleric spell book, I would assume. So for a SS, it is really like a Druid, just less capable because doesn't have Wildshape, but more spells and more often.

[Nemni]

for shaman it is the armor and shield enhancements.

Spirit Shaman doesn't get any armor or shield spell buffs, only a deflection limited to +4. What you refer to is Cleric spell book, I would assume. So for a SS, it is really like a Druid, just less capable because doesn't have Wildshape, but more spells and more often.

What he is saying is that for a shaman the armor and shield merging matters because they don't have those spells.

[DiceyCZ]

The new update is absolutely briliant, thanks!

Just one more question Weapon enchantments now affect melee weapons, how about ranged ones though? I guess there is probably some problem with how enchantments are applied on bows etc. but is it planned, is it doable?
Thanks

[Sun Wukong]

Spirit Shamans with their Flame Weapon and Storm Avatar, I suppose they get no damage?

[dedude]

Melee weapons transfer to melee, ranged transfer to ranged. Not sure about the the shaman spells, but if they apply directly to the weapon, then they wont transfer right now at least.

Be aware that there is an issue with the item merging in general (and this most likely affects wildshape as well), that sometimes they don't transfer. It seems to be a timing issue related to the number of buffs you have cast on yourself at the time. There will be a change to the "behind the scenes mechanics" of this in the next update, which I hope will eliminate this issue for good.

[Sun Wukong]

Thorn Skin applies then. I think it is applied on the character itself and not on the weapon. So... 1d4 damage from a spell that cannot be extended.

[Steve]

Storm Avatar 3d6 electrical is NOT transferring over to Form with weapons. And, when you shift back, you don't have the extra dmg on your normal form, but retain the speed movement.

Storm Avatar 3d6 electrical also does not apply to non-weapon having forms.

I also see that, when returning to normal form, my SS takes 44 pts of positive dmg!!!!

And, Werewolf form is misspelled in the Chooser.

[dedude]

Next update the spell slot loss from items with bonus spell slots and from subrace ability bonus should be fixed. This goes for all druid shapes, polymorph self, and shapechange.

[Steve]

Help me clear up the AC for Polymorphing.

It was stated the latest iteration now mirrors how AC is with Wildshape, so below is that custom change:

The following bonuses will transfer when using wildshape for all shapes:

• Your highest enchantment bonus to armor or bracers will transfer as an enchantment bonus to AC
• Half of your enchantment bonus (rounded down) to your shield will transfer as a shield bonus to AC
• Your highest deflection bonus will transfer as a deflection bonus to AC
• Your natural bonus will transfer as a natural bonus to AC
• Any other bonuses from items will transfer, but not weapons

Thus, for a Wizard/Sorc, the AC will be:

B = base Shape AC
D = DEX bonus from Shape AC
+6 = Improved Mage Armor
+2 = Shield spell (4 / 2 = 2)
+4 = Deflection AC (from Item)
+5 = Natural (Shadow Shield spell)
+2 = Cat's Grace

+4 = Epic Spell Focus: Transformation
--------------------
= Base + Dexterity + 23

Is Tumble AC bonus factored in?
Is LoH factored in?
Is Armor Skin (epic) factored in?
Is Bone Skin (palemaster) factored in?


Now, let's look at Spirit Shaman:

B = base Shape AC
D = DEX bonus from Shape AC
+4 = Item Armor
+2 = Shield AC (4 / 2 = 2)
+4 = Deflection AC (from Item or spell)
+9 = Natural (Tortoise shell)
+2 = Cat's Grace

+2 IMA

+4 = Epic Spell Focus: Transformation
--------------------
= Base + Dexterity + 27

Am I on the right track here?

[matelener]

Shield spell is +4 AC. AC feats and tumble work, Bone Skin doesn't.

[Steve]

Shield spell is +4 AC. AC feats and tumble work, Bone Skin doesn't.

Okay, so Shield spell is full +4, but Shield AC—from a shield item—is halved, like for Druid?

[Sun Wukong]

Yup. So it is 25 (Arcanes) against 27 (shamans). Or 25-25 without the wand of Improved Mage Armor.

Oh, and Steve, do look into a build such as 'Rogue or Phantom 3/Spirit Shaman 20/Darkfire Disciple 7' - which gets 4d6 sneak attack dice, and +1 fire damage in your preferred form. You can have summons to help you flank, and now that you can shift back and forth between shapes, your summons will stay alive.

[Steve]

Alright, good to be sussing this out.

So, have the Base AC for Shapes been updated on the Wiki?

If we're looking at 25(27) + Base + Shape DEX, then the only shape to get above 50 AC—the DEFAULT AC if you want to experience Epic Content—is the Horned Devil. Mind Flayer comes in second, I think, at 49 AC.

[aaron22]

i see the mind flayer at 41 and after the horned devil is dragon at 46 is next best. maybe im missing something.

[Cenerae]

If it's useful for wiki entries at all...

I've been toying with Shapechange on my halfling thaumaturge. She has 0 supporting feats or combat styles or the like, so everything she's getting is just from wizard buffs and her very limited gear (since a lot of her gear is spell slot bonuses).

Buffed with: IMA, Shadow Shield, Cat's Grace, Shield. Cornugon form comes out with 52 AC. She has a +2 deflection item, which I assume is getting merged, and +2 dodge boots which I assume is not.

The dragons have 50 AC.

Arboreal Elf form comes in with 42 AC. Most of the other offensive forms are somewhere between this and 39 or so.