Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Would it be over powered to change the Pale Master Level 10 summon greater undead to create a vampire that is the same as the 8th level Create Greater Undead?

IIRC, Create Greater Undead summons an 18 hit die vampire warrior or warlock.

at Lvl 10, PMs can summon a 14 hit die vampire swashbuckler (except without the cool hat).

**Edit to add: Yes I play a PM, and yes I would love it if the summons was more powerful.

mrieder79 wrote:Would it be over powered to change the Pale Master Level 10 summon greater undead to create a vampire that is the same as the 8th level Create Greater Undead?

IIRC, Create Greater Undead summons an 18 hit die vampire warrior or warlock.

at Lvl 10, PMs can summon a 14 hit die vampire swashbuckler (except without the cool hat).

**Edit to add: Yes I play a PM, and yes I would love it if the summons was more powerful.

Why no option to add a vampire swashbuckler with a cool hat? It'd balance it out perfectly!


Joking aside, it doesn't seem a far-call to me.

Unfortunately there are no epic PrC's so I'd have to say no. If you buff PM, you'd have to buff them all.

It would be horrendously overpowered. It was already a mistake to increase the Greater Undead's Duration, to be honest. Now it can be Extended to 1h Duration by a CL 30, which is an abomination once buffed.

The increased PM summons on the Server are excellent. They are everlasting, and your buffs will never be misplaced on them. They are immune to crits, Regenerate health and can tank perfectly if you bomb the area with Negative Energy Bursts (not that much for the healing, but for the AoE Str drain) and Cloudkill (quickens the kills by a lot), to say a couple of low-investment spells.

Any further increase would be a big mistake.

You're mistaken.
CGU summons level 15 warlock / warrior.

Still, I agree that the palemaster summon should be based on the CGU Warrior

I would like to thank everyone who has voted and expressed their opinions on the matter so far. The poll is still running, so feel free to contribute to the discussion.

I think the PM Vampire should have a cool hat. Then I think it would be balanced.


Cool hats = perfect balance.

Sure I don't see why not. Plus he only got the idea for it when he saw my character's augmented warlock owning in a PvP session. All kidding aside though, I may be biased because I want to see Gate and Epic Gate extended too.

Laenor wrote:You're mistaken.
CGU summons level 15 warlock / warrior.

Still, I agree that the palemaster summon should be based on the CGU Warrior

Nah, Laenor, it'd be way too strong. It has already been a huge buff to extend CGU, which now outshines pretty much everything else if you extend it (why on earth would anybody get Gate?). If we make the same call for the PM summon, which is neverending, it's going to be ridiculous: an UMD Wizard can transform the summon into an "all day long puppet PC" with all the buffs you can safely dump on it...It is going to be really, really strong.

I don't think we Need more power, to be honest. I really don't like to play overpowered classes.

Hard to say... In order to cast the the level 8 summon, a wizard must be lvl 15, the same as a lvl 10 palemaster (with 5 wizard levels). The greater undead is undoubtly the strongest summon you can get here, and thats why I would say it is too OP to give it PM's who doesnt focus further into the study of the arcane. Arcane focused PM builds will get this summon anyways.

I say make it a lvl 16 instead of 15... small buff. but makes a small difference

Oh, someone remind me what the current palemaster summons are again. I RCR'ed my palemaster some time back.

The level 10 PM summons is a lvl 14 swashbuckler.

Pale Master have a great deal of goodies already, nope, not needed at all.

Valefort wrote:Pale Master have a great deal of goodies already, nope, not needed at all.

Sadly, though, the PM9 Greater Undead is better than the PM10 one. The PM9 is a fighter with knockdown. The PM10 is a swashbuckler with a dominate person ability of useless DC. Would be better just to have the PM9 one a bit buffed rather than the silly swashbuckler one.

They do about the same kind of damage anyways.