Roleplaying as Evil

Wolfrayne · Unread post by **Wolfrayne** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:04 am

So i am looking to enrich my character a bit and i am having a bit of trouble doing so, I guess much of it stems from a few problems but i get to that in a moment. I have read many forum posts on playing evil characters etc and i still feel that it is a bit... gimped.

How do i play a character that is purely evil in an environment that discourages being a "bad guy" and severly punishes you for playing as such? You get caught doing something "unlawful" or "evil" and you are pretty much ruined. its severly limits the places you can go to do anything without being harrased by others.

Any ideas/suggestions?

Deathgrowl · Unread post by **Deathgrowl** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:41 am

Buy lots of potions and poisons that work in liquids. And then you poison the potions and put them in the chests people loot (minotaur labyrinth!) when you're on your own loot run. Potions like that stay even when the chest "resets".

Evuuul. *cackles*

I used to walk around with my undead summon on my pale master gish. Never ran into anyone.

Anyways, not much point in playing evil unless you cause evil towards other PCs. Some people have teamed up as trade way bandits before, for instance. Be creative.

And read this: http://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=14987

Blame The Rogue · Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:45 am

playing CE on the surface, in a typically neutral to good aligned realm, will lead you to a lot of pvp, and possibly the gallows

LE and NE on the other hand...

plot evil. plot plot plot. be openly evil in private or in the roaringshores. you need to be smart evil. dumb evil wont work. challenging i know

this includes putting points to intimidate and bluff. lie lie lie. buy numerous disguises/outfits. hide hide hide who you are and your evil intentions

i myself don't play evil characters, as i find playing them exhausting

Wolfrayne · Unread post by **Wolfrayne** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:57 am

Yep I am playing lawful evil and it is one hell of an exhausting job, Trying to act good while plotting ways to twist good to my own promotions can be difficult. and again if i ever get caught it leads to some serious problems and headaches. I suppose one option would be to kill the people who see me doing evil but then i have the problem where i am bound by the laws of PVP and have to let them walk....

TalonofWindspeak · Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:01 am

Often thought about playing a "catch me if you can" CE, seeing how long you would last, making the PC the most hated vile villain around in ages...

See how long it takes to get caught and hung or burned at the stake, now that's a challenge...

You could probably stretch it out with a bit of help along the way...

Blame The Rogue · Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:44 am

pretend to be a neutral/good guy. party with others. give a fake name. show your face. the whole time you party with them, gauge their strengths and weaknesses. later you can go after them one at a time, wearing a mask and different armor

following pvp rules of course

don't ever do obvious evil without wearing one of your disguises

Deathgrowl · Unread post by **Deathgrowl** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:03 am

Blame The Rogue wrote: don't ever do obvious evil without wearing one of your disguises

Well, that's sort of the problem sometimes. An evil character can be motivated by the power he gains from causing fear. He wants you to know who he is, so that each time you see him, you know fear.

And he may very well be a narcissist.

Nomster · Unread post by **Nomster** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:21 am

Instead of re-writing all that's been said in the past, I'll link to some choice posts. If you have the time I'd suggest reading the whole threads. I personally don't agree with everything but I think there are some good advice to be taken from them.

Choice quote from TheVoid wrote:Evil in a lawful land needs to be smart. YOU ARE NOT A SPAWN. Spawns have no sense of self preservation and are classic examples of stupid evil. You are not some raging Balor summoned from the lowests depths of the Abyss to start slaughtering innocense in front of lesser mortals on the tradeway. If a Balor gets pwn'd doing that how or why should an openly evil character NOT EXPECT THE SAME FATE?

Wolfrayne wrote:How do i play a character that is purely evil in an environment that discourages being a "bad guy" and severly punishes you for playing as such? You get caught doing something "unlawful" or "evil" and you are pretty much ruined. its severly limits the places you can go to do anything without being harrased by others.

You need to find a strategy of being evil that works for your character. If you never want to be caught, you should look more at playing secretive evil with puppets and behind the scenes action. If you're looking for more open acts, disguises can get you a long way. If you don't want to disguise yourself, you just have to play your cards right and not lean towards stupid evil. There's no golden advice that makes all of this easy.

If you do evil acts in front of others, expect the word to go around. There is no getting away from that, people talk so make sure you trust the people around you (well, IC anyway). Paranoia can be healthy!

Passiflora · Unread post by **Passiflora** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:18 am

People may not know, but most of my characters on this server have been evil in the past. All exept Randal. And guess who was hanged by the flaming fists? Chaotic good Randy. The trick to have fun as an evil character on a good setting is when paladins push you forward your goals, when the goodies treat you as a friend while your machiavelian plan is in action.

You can also be evil without being a mastermind or a murderer.

Xanfyrst · Unread post by **Xanfyrst** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:25 am

I have a Chaotic Evil character. He's unpredictable, dangerous, slightly insane and murderous. But he tries to be a good guy. Just his urges and life decisions tend to drag him back into evil-country. He has a prize on his head, but has never been caught... as he's not an idiot in spite of his CE-alignment and personality.

I often see players that tries to be evil going full 100% evil bats crazy. Never do that. The most memorable evil characters in fiction all have redeeming traits. Maybe they're honourable. Maybe they have a weakness for children. Maybe they just want to change the world to be a better world. Maybe they fight evil by doing evil.

Speaking of which, evil doesn't mean you're a villain. An evil character can be on Team Good as well. He can be one doing all the things the good-aligned goodies never would, but might be necessary. Or have a self-interest in having Team Good succeeding. Or you're hunting evil like another Punisher, never giving mercy to those he hunt. Or you're just powerhungry, taking advantage of every little diplomatic opportunity that presents itself, not caring of its consequences to others. Evil can be much more on this server than it is, if players would just try think a bit outside the box.

The same time, I wish most players who plays good guys had some more... 'darkness' in them. Some personality traits that could in theory throw them into the evil-alignment if certain conditions were present. Would make good-aligned characters more interesting than they are.

Torgerias · Unread post by **Torgerias** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:32 am

Remember that you can also play a "corrupter" type of evil. This is the evil that pretends to be good, makes friends with the good guys, and begins pushing them, ever so gently, in his direction until their moral code starts to bend and maybe even break as events unfold. Evil can be far more insidious than random violence, murder, or theft - which as you said, is practically impossible to get away with in a good, lawful society. Just like in real life, there are consequences, but there are plenty of evil people in the real world who work inside the system.

Hoihe · Unread post by **Hoihe** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:33 am

Xanfyrst wrote:
Speaking of which, evil doesn't mean you're a villain. An evil character can be on Team Good as well. He can be one doing all the things the good-aligned goodies never would, but might be necessary. Or have a self-interest in having Team Good succeeding. Or you're hunting evil like another Punisher, never giving mercy to those he hunt. Or you're just powerhungry, taking advantage of every little diplomatic opportunity that presents itself, not caring of its consequences to others. Evil can be much more on this server than it is, if players would just try think a bit outside the box.

In other words.. "In the name of greater good, you must die."

I agree with Xan wholeheartedly, more often than not evil characters don't know they're evil.

Rasael · Unread post by **Rasael** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:40 am

I think the difference between good and evil is best explained by examining the boundary between selflessness and selfishness.

Examining Selfishness as Good, and selflessness as Evil:

In all cases this is a matter of intent, with the caveat that in the D&D universe there are some acts which will always count as Evil intent. (Create Undead spells for example) But that does not mean they are not redeemable by a greater good.

The relation of Selfishness to Selflessness is rather more vague, and difficult to delineate. It is obvious that you can be selfish by not "doing good", but you can also be selfish by "doing good" in favour of a greater evil. So "doing good" as such does not make you goodly, even if like evil there are some objectively good acts in D&D.

So being good is intending good, without being selfish.
Being evil on the other hand is intending good or evil, but / or being selfish.

But we are left with a conundrum of two possible interpretations:

1-Selfishness and Selflessness can overlap (good for me and you, good for us)
2-Selfishness and Selflessness cannot overlap (good for all, regardless of me)

Whereby we see in (1) that a character might be "good" if he intends what is best for a group of others including himself. This is a case of aligned interests, which seems rather selfish unless the character does and would support the "us" regardless of him or herself. Simply because he intends good.

So there we see the nature of good as opposed to evil. Like (2) good is about self sacrifice with the intent of furthering the greater good. The interest of the self is irrelevant, hence any sacrifice is acceptable to a truly good character if it brings about a greater measure of good compared to the sacrifice.

But then we are stuck with one final question regarding good and selflessness. Being that (2) can satisfy (1) if the person believes he ought to do (2). Since the character is then essentially selfishly serving his own interest and his own belief in good.

Resolving the final paradox:

This final paradox is resolved if we note that a truly good character would not solely serve his own interest and belief in good. Naturally he must make up his own mind to some extent, but his sense of good must be open to what other characters, NPC's and deities consider to be good.

Thereby a goodly character under (2) serves the interests of others regardless of himself and his personal convictions, because they are adjusted based on other people's experience of good.

So "good":
- A goodly character intends to do good for all people, adjusting his own vision on how to do good by their feedback, and in spite of conflicting self interest.

Whereas "evil":
- An evil character can intend to do good for all people, but either does not adjust his own vision (tyranny) on how to do good, or does not follow through if his self interest opposes the act.
- Or an evil character only intends good for a limited group of people.
- Or an evil character does not even intend to do good at all, instead he intends evil and is purely self centred. (selfish, and knowing it)

I think that here we see that good inevitably requires intending to serve the greater interest of all. Evil on the other hand only requires not serving the greater interest of all, but going contrary to it. (by only helping a specific group, or by not adjusting one's view of how to do good based on feedback by your victims, or by not following through with good intent because of a selfish conflict of interest)

Based on that analysis I would argue there are 4 main Arch-types of evil characters:

A -The "Deluded" , who thinks he does good but only follows his own vision thereof. For example the tyrant who is convinced of his own good governance, and terrorizes the populace thinking he is helping them live good lives. In spite of their complaints or pleas for mercy, he does not adjust his method or views.

B - The "Opportunist" , who intends to do good but really only does so if his self interests align with such an act. This character is outwardly good until he betrays others because the cost of doing good becomes too high for him. This arch type includes morally weak turn coats, cowards, but also characters who habitually do good only to find later that there are some things they don't want to sacrifice for. Even if the greater good demands it. For example to abandon a loved one, or a lover. (the tragic tale of a love at odds with what is good)

C - The "Favoritist" , who believes he does good but only does so for a limited group of people. For example the capitalist who creates cheap medicines for his home State, but does far more damage to the health of the people he tests his medicines on, or dumps his medical waste nearby in other regions outside his home State.

D - The "Deranged" , who simply is so broken as a person that he does not wish to be good in any sense. He just wants to see the world burn, and fully intends to do evil. This person is evil of any alignment, not necessarily chaotic. He can for example be convinced that certain rules of evil ought to be taken into account, for the greatest possible effect, or because he selfishly desires an ordered world.

Finally, based on this analysis and following deduction of evil arch types, I think we can clearly see that three out of four types of evil actually intend to do good in some form. They just fail because of character flaws, ultimately lacking the courage, will power or understanding to change their selfish ways. Only one form of evil actively intends and pursues evil instead of good.

It should be noted for clarity that these forms of evil cover the entire spectrum of lawfulness to chaotic behaviour. Each evil arch type can be anywhere in that alignment spectrum. (chaotic, neutral or lawful)

LordLP · Unread post by **LordLP** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:51 am

The best evil characters make you believe they're anything but evil.

Xanfyrst · Unread post by **Xanfyrst** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:31 am

Rasael, Alistair doesn't fit any of these! *shakes fist*

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