Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

I suggest humbly that we make epic gates creature go off of a characters alignment.. ty *bows bows*

What do you mean? We already have it based on alignment.

Good: Angel
Neutral: Balor, last I heard but they may have changed it to Xorn
Evil: Balor.

The spell still summons a Balor for neutral people.

Makes it a completely worthless spell for Neutral casters.

Hoihe wrote:What do you mean? We already have it based on alignment.

Good: Angel
Neutral: Balor, last I heard but they may have changed it to Xorn
Evil: Balor.

Last time I cast the spell with a Neutral aligned Luthien (months ago), the spell still summoned a balor. It wouldn't be a bad thing to have it summon a xorn for neutral aligned characters.

It should really be changed.

Maxwell approves this message and adds "Maybe a new summon for neutral casters, Xorns make paladins uncomfortable and they are always trying to eat the family jewels. . . " *nod nod nod*

It should summon what you want not some presu-metagaming alignment check for the world to see.

LordLP wrote:It should summon what you want not some presu-metagaming alignment check for the world to see.

I agree especially since the creatures stats and abilities are different.

I agree it should be different, mostly because it shouldn't be able to be used to metagame someone's alignment - and even more, because it's more in line with how the spells work in Forgotten Realms.

A priest of Bhaal can summon an angel to question, just as well as a priest of Lathander can summon a demon to question. They'll both suffer alignment consequences accordingly due to the spell, and they'd better have a good reason in the eyes of their patron deity to do so... but they can do it.

Considerate_ wrote:A priest of Bhaal can summon an angel to question, just as well as a priest of Lathander can summon a demon to question. They'll both suffer alignment consequences accordingly due to the spell, and they'd better have a good reason in the eyes of their patron deity to do so... but they can do it.

Gate works as a 'summon and bound for immediate task' in nwn2. That means you can summon what ever generic creature you wish as long as it doesn't exceed HD of 2x your caster level. Guess you can RP 'working out a contract' with a summon if the DM allows.

Point being, Bhaal priest can summon an angel to fight for him as a immediate task for the duration of the spell. There is no alignment restriction or effect - I would think an evil god would find it amusing to bound some goodie goodie creature to slaughter a foe for a limited time.

As of now it's an alignment check that everyone treats IC as an alignment check.

Which creature could be good for neutral guys?

"What makes a good man go neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?"

Stop being so neutral and pick a side!

(had to be said)

LordLP wrote:Point being, Bhaal priest can summon an angel to fight for him as a immediate task for the duration of the spell. There is no alignment restriction or effect

As much as I can understand your reasoning, this is just not the case with how the D&D rules work, as far as I understand them. The Gate spell gets the same descriptor as the creature you use to summon it. Which means, if you summon a demon or devil, it gets the evil descriptor.

Regardless of the reason, it is always Evil to summon a demon or a devil to the material plane. What you do with it afterwards, might avoid good or evil points depending on what you do. But that's why it should never be done lightly... and most would probably argue, not at all.

Same holds true for summoning an Angel or other celestial being. The act of summoning it is always good. If you then force it into slaughtering a village of innocents, that's using a good spell for evil.

Considerate_ wrote:

LordLP wrote:Point being, Bhaal priest can summon an angel to fight for him as a immediate task for the duration of the spell. There is no alignment restriction or effect

As much as I can understand your reasoning, this is just not the case with how the D&D rules work, as far as I understand them. The Gate spell gets the same descriptor as the creature you use to summon it. Which means, if you summon a demon or devil, it gets the evil descriptor.

Regardless of the reason, it is always Evil to summon a demon or a devil to the material plane. What you do with it afterwards, might avoid good or evil points depending on what you do. But that's why it should never be done lightly... and most would probably argue, not at all.

Same holds true for summoning an Angel or other celestial being. The act of summoning it is always good. If you then force it into slaughtering a village of innocents, that's using a good spell for evil.

What you said and what he said are not inconsistent. You would get evil points for summoning a demon or devil, sure, but the fact that you're not evil wouldn't stop you from summoning one. If you're using divine magic your god might stop you unless you have a very good reason, but alignment wouldn't be a key factor.

Side wrote: If you're using divine magic your god might stop you unless you have a very good reason, but alignment wouldn't be a key factor.

That is exactly what I'm, trying to at least, say