Bluff

[tribunal]

When some player roll Bluff check other player roll sense motive as respond ... Is it possible that other player also roll bluff check on bluff ? Something like liar will recognize liar ? Or you can recognize lie only by rolling sense motive check ? Thanks ...

[Heartfilia]

Bluff vs Bluff is always acceptable for toons from the pre sense motive days

I do not believe in rolling bluff vs bluff if you have sense motive available as a skill. Being able to lie and being able to catch a lie are a ways apart.

That being said, player rolls can only be enforced by a DM, so do whatever you have fun RPing!

[tribunal]

Aw, ok .. But that is not so cool i think, because almost no one will put some skill points in sense motive and everyone can lie everyone without any difficulty. There are many players who will play on bluff check because of their feint hit and generally most of the players use higher intelligence than wisdom ...

[Heartfilia]

Aw, ok .. But that is not so cool i think, because almost no one will put some skill points in sense motive and everyone can lie everyone without any difficulty. There are many players who will play on bluff check because of their feint hit and generally most of the players use higher intelligence than wisdom ...

Like I said, it's just my personal opinion! There is certainly nothing wrong with going Bluff vs Bluff if both players have made an agreement to do so!

[Nomster]

You are never required to roll anything against another player. Only DM's can enforce rolls because proper DC's need to be set. Usually when players roll, it is a matter of the higher roll wins, which is absurd IMO.

Bluff & Sense Motive can be useful in DM events, so they are not "worthless". I find it difficult to be bluffing, using diplomacy, intimidate etc if I do not have the invested skills even if I pretty much never make a roll.

If you want to roll dice for these skills, the other player must agree to it. So if you pull off a lie with 80 bluff and the other player chooses to ignore it - they are in their right to do so as only a DM can enforce that roll. Conversation skills in PnP are also not meant to be used against fellow players but against NPCs.

Also, rolling bluff is usually a bad idea. Even if you roll high, everyone will OOCly know you are lying and sometimes it can be difficult to prove IC suspicion without it falling back on 'metagaming'.

[tribunal]

In that case that is more than absurd. By that logic skills like : '' Intimidate, bluff and sense motive '' are completely useless and worthless . DM events are great things, but lets be realistic , if you can't use those skills against other players they are completely useless . And not only useless i am afraid ... If you choose to ignore rolls just like that you will kill the game and you will kill the RP ...

[Thorsson]

We've been over this a hundred times, and it's getting boring. In PnP there's a DM to set all sorts of adjusting factors; a straight roll vs roll is rollplay, not roleplay.

If you are roleplaying then skills cannot be worthless.

[tribunal]

decline

yeap yeap yeap it can be ...

[NeOmega]

In the same vein, if someone chooses to ignore your bluff roll...

....you can just stop RPing with them, and walk away.

[Thorsson]

In the same vein, if someone chooses to ignore your bluff roll...

....you can just stop RPing with them, and walk away.

If they haven't already walked away...

[Hitman Hard]

The problem with always-following skill checks is bards and rogues would dominate and they already do well enough mechanically.

[NeOmega]

The problem with always-following skill checks is bards and rogues would dominate and they already do well enough mechanically.

Bards and rogues, sorcerers and warlocks should be better at lying.

anyways, I usually throw out a bluff roll to let the other player know I am lying, not to win any sort of competition.

[Hitman Hard]

You don't think bluffs are used to get over others? Hmm... ok.....

[Archaos]

Using conversation skills against other players is lame. And I will ignore it.

Why? Because a powergamer could go "I'm one of the guard, give me your gold I will keep it safe *rolls 100 Bluff*"

Or "Come with me *rolls 100 Diplomacy*" or "I will kill you unless you give me your sword! *rolls 100 Intimidate*".

That's the lamest way to "roleplay" which is actually "rollplay". Sure, it's not useful in combat but if you want to take part in an event don't complain if it's not going your way with that 6 Charisma and -2 Diplomacy.

[NeOmega]

You don't think bluffs are used to get over others? Hmm... ok.....

I don't know why you are asking me what I "think", since I said I use bluff rolls to indicate to other players I am lying.