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Hello Underdarkers, your feedback please!
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:44 am
by DM Ioulaum
Dear Underdark community,
I have updated the rules and lore topics for you to take into account the recent updates by Rasael and Luna. And also to clarify a number of issues that were left vague, leading to questions by players. I have also attempted to make the text easier to read.
It would be very helpful to receive your feedback on the changes, so that we know if everything is now in order, and if we forgot or overlooked something.
The topics that were updated are:
- The Laws of S'shamath.
- Lore: Everything about Sshamath. (some of the additions are in blue color)
And a new topic was created: The Stonestave: Formal petitions to the Conclave.
The largest additions are this:
Religion
In S'shamath around 8% of the citizenry are devoted worshipers of Lolth, while another 10% is a regular worshiper, and then about 65% of the population pays her token lip service along with other deities.
Since the Illithilich War of 1348 / 49 DR or 4220 / 21 SC there has been a marked increase in the amount of devoted worshipers and regular worshipers of Lolth. At the same time there was also a very slight rise in those who pay her lipservice. This means that overall the Spider Queen has gained a modest amount worshipers, compared with the total population, and that her worship is the largest in the City by a large margin. However, the worship of Lolth does not dominate the city, though the majority of people are certainly ill at ease ignoring or angering her. The worship of other deities hasn't been severely affected.
Other popular deities are in order of popularity:
- (0. Lolth (18% of the population are regular or devoted worshipers) )
- 1. Vhaeraun (12%)
- 2. Mystra (11%)
- 3. Gaunadaur (9%)
- 4. Selvetarm (7%)
- 5. Azuth (6%)
- 6. Zinzerena (6%)
- 7. Erevan Ilesere / Ghollhyr (under demi-deity guise, 5%)
- 8. Eilistraee (4%)
- 9. Hanali Celanil / Euotet (in demi-deity guise, 3%),
- 10. Savras (3%)
- 11. Labelas Enoreth / Solzhaun (under demi-deity guise, 3%)
- 12. Correllon Larethian / Vhaid Ih'ara (in demi-deity guise, 2%)
- 13. Fenmarel Mestarine / Do'gareth (under demi-deity guise, 2%)
- 14. Kiaransalee (1%)
- 15. Other, or regular or devoted atheist (8%)
Notable is the fact that several Seldarine deities are present in S'shamath disguised as Drow Demi-deities. These deities name themselves after their porfolios and defining traits in the Drow language, and are not known or recognized by their regular clergy or churches.
Seldarine deities in S'shamath:
- Correllon Larethian = Vhaid Ih'ara (The proud protector)
- Erevan Ilesere = Ghollhyr (Of the lucky tricks)
- Fenmarel Mestarine = Do'gareth (the strong outcast)
- Hanali Celanil = Euotet (As lovely as a Gem)
- Labelas Enoreth = Solzhaun (the knowing eye)
And this:
Defenses
Like all drow enclaves, Sshamath is well defended by both arms and Art, though perhaps less so than some other cities, as there are no nearby enemies to pose a threat to the city. Only the crafting of the priesthood of Lolth found in many other cities are largely absent.
On a citywide scale, each recognized school of magic contributes to Sshamath's defenses, each overseeing a particular aspect or aspects. The continuing struggle between wizards and their schools to outdo one another has created an increasing layer of wards and other arcane defenses, which already makes the city nigh-impregnable to outside attack.
The most formidable of these defenses consist of epic spells that harden the stone, lock down the city in a continual Dimensional Anchor, redirect Teleport spells cast by strangers, and cause paralyzing pain to anyone within a 1 mile radius who seriously thinks about attacking the city or its citizens. There are many other examples of the city's arcane defenses, too numerous to list here. The overall effect is not unlike a mythal in many regards, though the overlapping effects are not woven together as with a true mythal, and sometimes these wards and spells may combine or counteract each other unexpectedly.
The near-mythal is essentially a web or spells and wards which is partly tied with the Earth-node beneath the City. In many ways it resembles or surpasses a mythal as a very complex piece of spellcraft. But in other ways it is unlike a mythal, for example because it has no centralized control spell to which the web of spells is attached. Instead its entirely decentralized with layers of spells tacked onto each other, which occasionally results in the mentioned unpredictable magical effects. The near-mythal like effect is collectively referred to as 'the wards', most of the inhabitants of S'shamath either do not know what a mythal is, or do not consider the wards similar enough to call them a near-mythal. Outsiders who have heard a thing or two about mythals do sometimes make the comparison.
The city guard of S'shamath possesses wands imprinted with their identity which are capable of paralyzing and inflicting debilitating pain on anyone who ignores their commands. The wards of the City inflict the same on anyone in S'shamath who attacks another inhabitant, and they protect everyone from harm. The automatic enforcement and protection by the wards does not extend to the sewers, tombs, and darkwoods district.
It should be clear in any case that fights and violence and disobedience are unlikely to happen in S'shamath. Even in absence of the guards the wards would protect the City's inhabitants. But the tombs, sewers, and Darkwoods district are another matter. Those areas are mostly exempt from the wards, although they can be extended there if the Conclave desires. This means that duels often taken place in the Darkwoods, and assassinations during secret parties or congregations in the sewers and tombs.
Law enforcement has also been clarified through this paragraph in the laws topic:
The city guard of S'shamath possess wands imprinted with their identity which are capable of paralyzing and inflicting debilitating pain on anyone who ignores their commands. The wards of the City inflict the same on anyone in S'shamath who attacks another inhabitant, and they protect everyone from harm. The automatic enforcement and protection by the wards does not extend to the sewers, tombs, and darkwoods district.
Thank you for your feedback!
Re: Hello Underdarkers, your feedback please!
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:42 am
by Storm Munin
An improvement on what existed prior.
Beyond ward clarifications I liked the breakdown on Sshamathan common worship.
Though I must admit I do miss some of the obvious ones from commonly worshiped (Shar, Grumbar) to race deities of the nondrow(deep gnomes, grey dwarves, orcs, tanaruhkk e t c).
Arguably the latter more likely hold less than 1% each, but still.
Re: Hello Underdarkers, your feedback please!
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:47 am
by Empoweredfan
You have already heard my views, and I'm as happy as I can be with the clarifications. It sorted a lot of issues that have bothered me this last year. Thank you for the effort you have put in here. =)
It really is appreciated.
Re: Hello Underdarkers, your feedback please!
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:12 am
by DM Ioulaum
I have amended the religious section slightly to take into account the feedback offered so far. This should clarify things some more.
Among the other deities can be found Shar, Grumbar, and others, including the mentioned atheists. Atheism is more common in S'shamath than elsewhere because of the Netherese influence on its culture. A sizable number of citizens are nihilistic or consider the deities to be abstract ideas, or spirits, which are not 'real' deities.
Notable is the fact that several Seldarine deities are present in S'shamath disguised as Drow Demi-deities. These deities name themselves after their porfolios and defining traits in the Drow language, and are not known or recognized by their regular clergy or churches.
Seldarine deities in S'shamath:
Correllon Larethian = Vhaid Ih'ara (The proud protector)
Erevan Ilesere = Ghollhyr (Of the lucky tricks)
Fenmarel Mestarine = Do'gareth (the strong outcast)
Hanali Celanil = Euotet (As lovely as a Gem)
Labelas Enoreth = Solzhaun (the knowing eye)
Small shrines to the deities of S'shamaths non-citizen inhabitants and even slaves can also be found. These include the Gnome, Halfling, Human, Dwarven, Goblin, Kobold, and Orc pantheons. The amount of worshippers to these deities changes with the composition of S'shamaths inhabitants and slaves every so many years.
Re: Hello Underdarkers, your feedback please!
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:05 am
by paw
i am still fairly new to the UD and its environs so am still learning all the rules, laws, lores that go with it.
Ya'll have obviously spent a lot of time and effort on all this and i am sure i am not alone when i say thanks
To date i have had a -lot- of fun interacting with all the different denizens down there and look forward to a lot more. Not read it all yet.. but what i have seen so far is very helpful.
Thanks
Re: Hello Underdarkers, your feedback please!
Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:10 am
by Lambert
Good stuff. Bite sized. Like it.
Need to consider the presence of followers of Auril.
Drow war party specs for past raiding parties of dnd modules are known to have them.
Plus the cloud peaks are so close!
Re: Hello Underdarkers, your feedback please!
Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:13 am
by DM Ioulaum
I have put up some rules for people who wish to join a school of magic, or who with to start a guild revolving around a particular school.
These rules formalize a practice we've been allowing for several years now. In particular with the School of Necromancy, and the school mages back when it was a guild too (and now again). The rules work for all the schools, including schools for which guilds exist.
In order to elevate their standing within S'shamath many of its citizens take up wizardry and enroll themselves in a school of magic of their choosing. Generally players may do the same and can roleplay such membership. However, players may not claim a particular title or position within a school of mages without possessing the required levels and classes. These are outlined below.
Players may roleplay possessing the following positions:
- Archmage [of xyz school] - If the character has 20 wizard casterlevels and has atleast one archmage level.
- Mage [of xyz school] - If the character has 15 wizard casterlevels or higher.
- Wizard [of xyz school] - If the character character has 10 wizard casterlevels or more.
- Sorcerer [of xyz school] - If the character character has 10 sorcercer casterlevels or more.
- Bard [of xyz school] - If the character character has 10 bard casterlevels or more.
- Apprentice [of xyz school] - If the character is a level 5 wizard, bard, sorcerer, or higher.
- Student [of xyz school] - If the character is a level 1 wizard, sorcerer, or higher. Bards must have a level in either the wizard or sorcerer classes to enroll.
Being associated with a School of Magic does not require joining a player run guild. On the contrary joining a player guild is required if a character wishes to join the Temple of Lolth in S'shsmath, or the 7th Circle. If there is a player guild for the chosen School of Magic then members of that group should be assumed to carry more collective clout than an individual of the same rank as a guild member. However, higher ranks always carry more authority than lower ranks so that a student organisation cannot gainsay an apprentice or archmage on matters relating to the school. The influence of player guilds within a school is proportional to its total number of members and their rankings.
Membership in a School of Magic entails the responsibility to act professionally and contribute to the development of its Art. It is expected that any member monitors his contact with associates of other Schools. Granting unsanctioned aid to another school of magic is grounds for expulsion. For example for leaking secret knowledge, or for aiding another school in its rituals or magic related missions without permission.
When membership is claimed it is expected the player will roleplay his new station consistently and deliberately. If any concerns arise regarding the quality of roleplay or sudden disassociation with the school then a fine may be leveed, or the payment of late tuition money required. The total sum is always at a Dungeon Master's discretion. Other measures are also possible, for example ostracism and even assassination. For example for members betraying one school to join another.
The following schools of magic exist in S'shamath, ordered by their age - oldest listed first, then the second oldest, and so forth:
- The School of Abjuration.
- The School of Conjuration and Summoning.
- The School of Divination.
- The School of Enchantment and Charm.
- The School of Illusion and Phantasm.
- The School of Invocation and Evocation
- The School of Necromancy.
- The School of Alteration. (Transmutation)
- The School of Mages.
- The School of Elemental Magic.
There are several reasons why the schools choose to allow bards and sorcerers. The first is because they bring in money and resources. Enrolling in a school is not free, you have to pay tuition and / or work for the school. Secondly because such individuals can be prominent citizens, adventurers, merchants, or capable teachers, so the school gains prestige if they become members.
The fact that bards and sorcerers learn to cast innately does not mean they cannot learn spells, spellcraft and magical theory from wizards. Naturally, the schools of magic remain wizardly institutions. They are not bardic colleges or schools of sorcery. But the curriculum in all schools allows bards and sorcerers to enroll and graduate, though not to advance into the higher echelons.
The social standing of wizards should always be considered as one rank higher when compared against the rank of a sorcerer or bard. A wizard apprentice thus has as much authority within a school of magic as a ranking bard or sorcerer. Wizards can also progress further, and are the only Drow who qualify for leadership positions. Nonetheless, the schools of mages do accept non-citizen inhabitants into their fold. Non-citizens may teach and achieve the rank of Mage, but not Archmage. They never qualify for leadership positions within a School of Magic.
Unlike sorcerers, Bards must have a minimum of one wizard or sorcerer level to enroll in a school. Player guilds within a school may also choose to refuse membership in their guild (not the school) to non-wizards. Such guilds / factions may also recruit associates who are not wizards, sorcerers, or bards, but these do not become school members unless they meet the criteria listed above.
Of all the Schools of Magic Warlocks are only welcomed within the School of Invocation and Evocation. In that school they advance as though they are sorcerers of equivalent level, and are similarly considered inferior to wizards of equal rank. Unlike sorcerers and bards warlocks do not learn to cast actual spells and therefore cannot enroll in any of the other schools of magic. They can however learn and study invocations alongside wizards in the School of Invocation and Evocation, along with the relevant magical theories and spellcraft.
Re: Hello Underdarkers, your feedback please!
Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:45 am
by Rasael
Thank you for the effort to clean up the Gloura's Wings section of our forum
It is helpful for me that the controversy and confusion over S'shamath's mythal / near-mythal / or wards has been cleared up. Previously several DM's had said we had a mythal in S'shamath. Having wards sounds more appropriate for a Drow City I guess. Though I had become accustomed to having a mythal. I also like the little tid bits of lore that have been added.
I will alter some of the text descriptions for the in-game areas and assets, so that they don't refer to a mythal and are consistent with everything described.
Re: Hello Underdarkers, your feedback please!
Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:38 am
by mireigi
Looks good to me. I'd like if you could also promote or clear up a recurring misunderstanding regarding The Spider's Kiss.
Most players and many DMs seem to believe that The Spider's Kiss is a tavern for Lolthites, and female drow (of that faith) are often very bold when there, sometimes even using the dungeons there to hold others captive for crimes against Lolth. This is wrong.
This is what The Spider's Kiss really is:
The Spider's Kiss wrote:This large festhall, located northwest of Z'orr'bauth, caters to drow males, particularly wizards. This establishment is suggestively named for the sport in which drow females kill their lovers after mating (such practices are rare in male-dominated Sshamath). The Spider's Kiss is also known for selling a variety of poisons, including drow sleep poison and the house specialty, a slow-acting lethal contact poison that can be safely smeared on any part of one's own body if the antidote is first ingested.
Source:
http://drowcampaign.roleplaynexus.com/citysshamath.html
Any female drow who enter the Spider's Kiss should act with extreme caution, as the staff and patrons (NPCs) there are likely to beat them up and throw them out on the streets if they misbehave. Female drow wizards might be more tolerable than other female drow, but anyone openly spurting Lolthite littany would quickly be departed, likely with a broken nose or a few broken bones.
Remember, Sshamath is a wizard city where males are the dominant ones, not the females, and even less so Lolthites.
Re: Hello Underdarkers, your feedback please!
Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:16 pm
by Thorsson
Rasael wrote:Having wards sounds more appropriate for a Drow City I guess.
As creating a Mythal requires the sacrifice of the lead caster, I think you could safely say that...
Re: Hello Underdarkers, your feedback please!
Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:20 pm
by DreWalker
Ive a question regarding the near-mythal. what consists of "seriously attacking the city, or its residents"?
mireigi wrote:Looks good to me. I'd like if you could also promote or clear up a recurring misunderstanding regarding The Spider's Kiss.
Any female drow who enter the Spider's Kiss should act with extreme caution, as the staff and patrons (NPCs) there are likely to beat them up and throw them out on the streets if they misbehave. Female drow wizards might be more tolerable than other female drow, but anyone openly spurting Lolthite littany would quickly be departed, likely with a broken nose or a few broken bones.
what extent of violence would the Near-Mythal allow before the offender is affected?
Re: Hello Underdarkers, your feedback please!
Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:58 pm
by mireigi
That is for the DMs to decide. I don't think it prevents you from beating up someone, but torturing, grieveously injuring (flaying off skin, deliberately breaking bones and limbs, etc), and murder would probably be something the near-mythal prevents.
Re: Hello Underdarkers, your feedback please!
Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:47 pm
by DM Ioulaum
These are my thoughts on the subject,
The wards automatically protect against physical injury, though not against poison or force that is used without causing harm. Force can for example be used to restrain an individual making a scene in a Festhall or Tavern. This effect has given rise to several popular drinking games, a few of which focus on introducing new visitors to debilitating pain and paralysis by colourfully insulting them. Particularly visiting Drow are considered good sport, and are often mugged while the wards paralyze them. Similarly the Spider's Kiss 'Festhall' is renowned for the maidens who are or pretend to be passionate conservative adherents of the Spider Queen. Among other services these maidens sell and apply non-lethal doses of poison, for paying clients. Occasional overdoses are not unheard of, but rare, and not prevented by the wards
Re: Hello Underdarkers, your feedback please!
Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:16 pm
by DreWalker
thanks
so mishaps do happen still. if they are not premeditated murder right? another scenario im curious how the near-mythal would handle it. A mage and his apprentice, the apprentice fails miserably at something and the mage looses his temper and casts a small spell to teach the apprentice a lesson, not to kill him. how do you think the near-mythal would react?
im just trying to better understand the near-mythal so we can rp properly in the city. maybe im asking in the wrong thread, if I am let me know
Re: Hello Underdarkers, your feedback please!
Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:41 pm
by mireigi
The wizard can't cast any harmful spell on the apprentice, however, he can cast a spell that blinds the apprentice, and then turn the ground beneath the apprentice into a five feet deep pit of mud and clay, then watch as the apprentice flails about helplessly in the pit. If the apprentice have his head above the pit, the wizard can even solidify the ground again, trapping the apprentice in the mud.
Queue a goblin slave who does something degrading to the neck deep in mud burried apprentice.
