Lore Check 0, what do you know?

[Dreme]

So I've often found myself in a bit of confusion about what is common knowledge and what would require a lore check. Often this comes up when encountering creatures. I am going to make this post with a list of creatures, then come back later and fill in the blanks as to what a person with no lore might know, or if they would even know such creatures exist! I hope everyone can help with this mini guide to -common- character knowledge! Also, if there are any other races you can think of, add them and I will update the list with whatever you think a 0 lore character should know!

Orcs-

Goblins-

Kobolds-

Gnolls-

Trolls-

Xvarts-

Mind flayers/Illithids-

Drow/Dark Elves-

Duergar/Gray Dwarves-

Svirfneblin/Deep Gnomes-

Gray Orcs-

Genasi (Fire, Earth, Wind, Water)-

Liches-

Dragons-

[Grimcheese]

Semi-serious submission.

---

Orcs - Savage monsters! They'll kill the men, take the women, and burn the fields without mercy! Kill them all/Run away!

Goblins - They're little! They're annoying! Some of them cast spells! Some of them explode!

Kobolds - They're little! They're annoying! Some of them cast spells!

Gnolls - They're giant upright dogs! No, werewolves! No, monsters! Who cares; run away/kill them all!

Trolls - WHY WOULD THEY NOT DIE (because you didn't know to apply fire/acid to their wounds, see)

Xvarts - Horrible blue goblins that breed like rabbits and can tame bears.

Mind flayers/Illithids - Who's this skinny tentacleface? Looks like an easyARGH SO MANY SPELLS IT'S EATING MY HEAD.

Drow/Dark Elves - Terrors of the night to murder and enslave us all! RUN AWAY!

Duergar/Gray Dwarves - Hello, funny-looking dwarf!

Svirfneblin/Deep Gnomes - Hello, funny-looking gnome!

Gray Orcs - Orcs 2.0.

Genasi (Fire, Earth, Wind, Water) - Freaky-looking humans!

Liches - Spellcasting undead! Always evil! Always doing world-shattering magic because why not!

Dragons - They're giant flying lizards that like gold?

[NegInfinity]

So I've often found myself in a bit of confusion about what is common knowledge and what would require a lore check.

With lore 0 you can occasionally pass lore DC of 20. So you may occasionally remember quite a lot.

When you are not trained in skill, you make check as usual - roll d20 and add natural ability modifier (which is int for lore).

in pnp dc of 10 is considered average, dc 20 is challenging, dc 30 heroic, and dc 40 nearly impossible.

Also, there are "take 20" and "take 10" rules in pnp.
When character is not immediately threatened, they can simply take 10 on roll instead of rolling dice.
When character has plenty of time (at least 2 minutes) to do something they can take 20, which means that they'll keep trying till they succeed.

On the server take20 is used when healing outside of combat.

Of course, you need to consult dms regarding take10 and take20. If you plan to use those.

Regarding lore/knowledge, pnp source books normally have dcs listed for specific topics.

[DM Golem]

Moved to tips and tricks.

This is one of those issues where we might want to consider exercising restraint; for example a blanket take 20 means anyone of average intelligence knows all challenging topics. And thats not appropriate.

Generally "not knowing" is one of those things that helps let those who have invested RPing specialism in a certain topic shine.

On that basis I don't think Grimcheese's approach is that bad!

It is clearly something affected by a given character's background and region of origin, as well.

[Truthiness]

So I've often found myself in a bit of confusion about what is common knowledge and what would require a lore check.

With lore 0 you can occasionally pass lore DC of 20. So you may occasionally remember quite a lot.

When you are not trained in skill, you make check as usual - roll d20 and add natural ability modifier (which is int for lore).

in pnp dc of 10 is considered average, dc 20 is challenging, dc 30 heroic, and dc 40 nearly impossible.

Also, there are "take 20" and "take 10" rules in pnp.
When character is not immediately threatened, they can simply take 10 on roll instead of rolling dice.
When character has plenty of time (at least 2 minutes) to do something they can take 20, which means that they'll keep trying till they succeed.

On the server take20 is used when healing outside of combat.

Of course, you need to consult dms regarding take10 and take20. If you plan to use those.

Regarding lore/knowledge, pnp source books normally have dcs listed for specific topics.

In pnp, knowledge skills are trained only, if you don't have points into them, it's just an intelligence check. Without training, you can only know common knowledge (DC 10) about a subject. In nwn2, knowledge skills are not seperated, it's just lore, which doesn't have "Trained Only", so doesn't apply, I guess?

For both knowledge and lore, I do not think there would ever be a take 10 or take 20 as you only roll once, you either know something or you don't.

[thids]

Take 20 assumes constant re-rolls until you get 20. You can't re-roll on a knowledge check so there is no take 20 or for them, you only roll once. Also as Truthiness said you only know the most common stuff with untrained knowledge IF you pass a DC10 intelligence check, but you can't know anything more than that. Which is a bit confusing because that means that you can't identify an orc with 3HD (since the DC to identify that creature is 10+HD). Maybe it's just worded weirdly.


What we haven't considered so far is seasoned adventurers. How much information do characters remember and get if they encounter certain types of creatures in their adventures? It doesn't raise their lore by default but they are obviously not completely ignorant about the creatures they encountered. Lore skill after all does not define the character's memory (well it partially does but you know what I mean). If this was a pnp campaign, the most effective way to keep track of this would be if the DM kept track of these encounters and gave circumstance knowledge skill bonuses every time that character encountered the creature of the same type in the future... But this is not pnp.

[Hawke]

Also, just want to point out...

What you know (heard of) and what you have seen, are two different things.

Lore checks are usually from speaking with others and reading books and scrolls about different things... However, if you have seen what a troll does first hand...and figure out or told on the spot how to kill it permanently, then no lore check in the future is required.

And one more thing....

Xvart - "Bless you? What is that?"

Not a common goblin, but if seen, might be mistaken for one, until you learn better.

[Dreme]

All right, so I've gotten a bit more information.. But let's speak of general information, those check 10s. Do they tell me trolls regen without fire or acid? Is that consider pretty common knowledge throughout the realm? Do I know fire dragons are weak to ice, or is that too much of a stretch? I figured xvarts were pretty uncommon since I had never encountered them in D&D, not until here, so I thought most might think they are goblins. (I thought it was just the name of a goblin tribe or something when I first came to BGtSCC) Do I know orcs are not inherently evil? Or that they commonly live in caves and forest? Or that evil orcs commonly worship Gruumsh? Would being an elf mean I know the common lore of Corellon, thus also know who Gruumsh is? Do I know kobolds worship dragons? or believe they are related to the dragons, or dragons see them as rodents and not related to them in any way? These are more the details I was wondering about.. Some of these things I would think would be common knowledge, since if you think about it it is kinda like knowing what the italian mafia is.. I know they are usually Italian, I know they extort, deal in drugs and kill.. I know they own casinos, WM, night clubs and Italian restaurants... That is without being able to tell you who major players are or ever have been in the mafia, without knowing much of anything about their history or organization...

[Grimcheese]

All right, so I've gotten a bit more information.. But let's speak of general information, those check 10s. Do they tell me trolls regen without fire or acid? Is that consider pretty common knowledge throughout the realm?

I think with a check-10, you'd know trolls regenerate. As to preventing that, it may be a matter of opinion. I lean towards either having the initial roll be high enough or requesting another check, though some other people might lump it with the regeneration as common knowledge.

Do I know fire dragons are weak to ice, or is that too much of a stretch?

If people already know of the concept of polar opposites, this is probably in the realm of logical guessing for a 0-lore character. Keep in mind that people can use logic to compensate for lack of knowledge, as long as the penchant for doing that is consistent for the character.

I figured xvarts were pretty uncommon since I had never encountered them in D&D, not until here, so I thought most might think they are goblins. (I thought it was just the name of a goblin tribe or something when I first came to BGtSCC) Do I know orcs are not inherently evil? Or that they commonly live in caves and forest? Or that evil orcs commonly worship Gruumsh?

I think that if you haven't read up on it, you wouldn't know orcs come in different flavours. In this case, it's best to think on the idea of generalisations/stereotyping: orcs are always evil, they like to live in forests and caves, and you don't know who this Gruumsh is but he sounds like a bad dude orcs like to worship, so evil orcs worship him.

(Meanwhile, Shargaas and the rest of the pantheon sulk in a corner because Gruumsh gets all the fun.)

Would being an elf mean I know the common lore of Corellon, thus also know who Gruumsh is?

Elves probably know Corellon, and that Gruumsh is the deity of their mortal enemy. Beyond that is probably dedicated for those showing an interest to the subject for whatever reason (research, has a job to kill all orcs, etc.)

Do I know kobolds worship dragons? or believe they are related to the dragons, or dragons see them as rodents and not related to them in any way?

Kobolds worshipping dragons might be common knowledge, and maybe their belief that they're related to dragons. If not remarked as a guess, knowing what dragons think of them might be too specific, as you'd actually need to run into a dragon to obtain that knowledge.

These are more the details I was wondering about.. Some of these things I would think would be common knowledge, since if you think about it it is kinda like knowing what the italian mafia is.. I know they are usually Italian, I know they extort, deal in drugs and kill.. I know they own casinos, WM, night clubs and Italian restaurants... That is without being able to tell you who major players are or ever have been in the mafia, without knowing much of anything about their history or organization...

Indeed, that is what would be considered common knowledge. You'd actually have to do research (get Lore checks) or be in the Mafia to know more than that, and I'm not so sure about the latter.