Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Subject: PLEASE READ - Godmoding NPCs

DM Golem wrote:Please note the following rules:

General Server Rules wrote:- No Godmodding NPCs!
"God Modding" is when someone’s Character (PC) has the ability to do practically anything without limits or boundaries. And example is when a PC simply cannot be harmed by any means, or ignores NPCs that would otherwise take action against the Character if a DM was overseeing the Roleplay situation. In addition, Players are not to control or speak for or direct actions of other NPCs, especially such NPCs that do not exist in this NWN2 game. Minor instances of NPC interactions may be used, such as and for example: "The merchant said they would spread the rumor I was seeking a special item."

Examples of either of the above will lead to serious consequences for your PC, and possibly a temporary ban of your Player account.

Hostile acts against NPCs will be treated in the same manner as PVP against PCs in front of NPCs - namely, permastrikes may well be handed out.

Ignoring the existence of NPCs who would intervene in contentious RP, if a DM is not present to control them, is a disciplinary matter.

For example, insulting NPC Flaming Fist Guards or the religion of Temple Clergy while stood right next to them is poor RP. And it will likely require the DM team to intervene.

Hostile actions against NPCs, such as physical assault, theft, or desecrating religious sites watched over by NPCs, without a DM to supervise, may result in a permastrike.

If players are frustrated by such RP, please screenshot it and send it to the DM and ADM usergroups on the forum.

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well, I guess anyone who does the Idol of Lolth quest and steals the idol to help the driders should be permastriked.

because NPCs > PCs

Its only about people abusing the lack of NPC reactions when no DM is around. I think you might be missing the point when you reference a scripted conversation.

well, I guess anyone who does the Idol of Lolth quest and steals the idol to help the driders should be permastriked.

because NPCs > PCs

To say you're comparing apples to oranges would be a gross understatement.

DM Golem wrote:Its only about people abusing the lack of NPC reactions when no DM is around. I think you might be missing the point when you reference a scripted conversation.

To reiterate Golem's point, here is an extreme example of a situation with an NPC and a player character that the rule would cover: a player character casts Sunburst IC on the NPC god Myrkul's face without asking a DM for permission and to supervise the outcome and appropriate NPC unscripted reaction to the player character casting Sunburst and no DM is present.

A scripted NPC dialog based quest is different from an unscripted NPC reaction as such as the server already has a scripted DM approved NPC set of reactions to the player character in the NPC dialog with or without DMs present.

DM Dialectic wrote:

DM Golem wrote:Its only about people abusing the lack of NPC reactions when no DM is around. I think you might be missing the point when you reference a scripted conversation.

To reiterate Golem's point, here is an extreme example of a situation with an NPC and a player character that the rule would cover: a player character casts Sunburst IC on the NPC god Myrkul's face without asking a DM for permission and to supervise the outcome and appropriate NPC unscripted reaction to the player character casting sunburst and no DM is present.

A scripted NPC dialog based quest is different from an unscripted NPC reaction as such as the server already has a scripted DM approved NPC set of reactions to the player character in the NPC dialog with or without DMs present.

Wait, so I didn't actually become the Lord of Bones the other day? Damn it, now what am I going to do with all these business cards?!

*nod*

And that makes sense, but at the less extreme examples it also severely limits any RP around any NPCs.

Like look at this example,

So if you try to help the drider to steal the idol of Lolth, Ulath'Tallar (High Priestess) G'eldala Baenani and the yath'abban will both aggro on you.

You can kill the yath'abban, but G'eldala is immune to all forms damage. What's funny is that SShamath's guards are on your side, and will attack G'eldala for attacking you - but even they can't harm her.

This whole scenario completely ignores the near-mythal of Sshamath which is supposed to cause severe pain to anyone who even thinks of harming a citizen of Sshamath. We can maybe excuse the guards, and maybe the high priestess since they probably have tokens making them immune to the pain-effect of the Mythal (which means, if you need to assassinate anyone, bribe a guard to do it for you).

Then there's defiling altars... IC action wise, that's really not much different than trying to steal an idol since mechanically, the server is scripted to gives a PC the option to defile an altar.

Though, I totally agree that the NPC priests would get involved if this happened, and depending on the priest, maybe they could, and maybe the couldn't stop someone from doing it - so a DM should be present - the problem is, most of the time, a DM isn't available. :\

Look, I guess I'm just really frustrated by the limitations of interacting with the setting. I don't want to godmod the npcs, but a certain amount of 'minor' godmodding is necessary, like... selling tons and tons of junk items to a NPC merchant... or allowing the NPC priest to 'raise' a very "questionable" PC, from the viewpoint of the faith.

but unless a DM wants to be involved really we can't talk to NPCs, and we're not allowed to ignore NPCs - so here's my advice:

Just avoid npcs completely.

Don't role-play anywhere near -any- NPCs unless a DM is on. That means, stay out of Baldur's Gate, Beregost, SShamath, any temples, heck even guild halls - anywhere a non-killable NPC is present, because gods forbid RP starts to go in a direction where someone thinks that NPC should intervene, even if the NPC's reaction might be to run away screaming.

So just avoid RPing with or about anything except other PCs unless a DM is present.

Is that a good answer? :\

*sigh*

I don't know what a good answer is.

grymhild wrote:*nod*

And that makes sense, but at the less extreme examples it also severely limits any RP around any NPCs.

Like look at this example,

So if you try to help the drider to steal the idol of Lolth, Ulath'Tallar (High Priestess) G'eldala Baenani and the yath'abban will both aggro on you.

You can kill the yath'abban, but G'eldala is immune to all forms damage. What's funny is that SShamath's guards are on your side, and will attack G'eldala for attacking you - but even they can't harm her.

This whole scenario completely ignores the near-mythal of Sshamath which is supposed to cause severe pain to anyone who even thinks of harming a citizen of Sshamath. We can maybe excuse the guards, and maybe the high priestess since they probably have tokens making them immune to the pain-effect of the Mythal (which means, if you need to assassinate anyone, bribe a guard to do it for you).

Then there's defiling altars... IC action wise, that's really not much different than trying to steal an idol since mechanically, the server is scripted to gives a PC the option to defile an altar.

Though, I totally agree that the NPC priests would get involved if this happened, and depending on the priest, maybe they could, and maybe the couldn't stop someone from doing it - so a DM should be present - the problem is, most of the time, a DM isn't available. :\

Look, I guess I'm just really frustrated by the limitations of interacting with the setting. I don't want to godmod the npcs, but a certain amount of 'minor' godmodding is necessary, like... selling tons and tons of junk items to a NPC merchant... or allowing the NPC priest to 'raise' a very "questionable" PC, from the viewpoint of the faith.

but unless a DM wants to be involved really we can't talk to NPCs, and we're not allowed to ignore NPCs - so here's my advice:

Just avoid npcs completely.

Don't role-play anywhere near -any- NPCs unless a DM is on. That means, stay out of Baldur's Gate, Beregost, SShamath, any temples, heck even guild halls - anywhere a non-killable NPC is present, because gods forbid RP starts to go in a direction where someone thinks that NPC should intervene, even if the NPC's reaction might be to run away screaming.

So just avoid RPing with or about anything except other PCs unless a DM is present.

Is that a good answer? :\

*sigh*

I don't know what a good answer is.

As the rule says, it is about contentious, hostile, or insulting IC behavior towards NPCs without DMs present (meaning non-scripted NPC dialogue cases) and without DM permission that ignores the affected NPCs, not any PC behavior around NPCs whatsoever. Meaning, there are a huge amount of possible PC actions around NPCs without a DM around to approve of them that are fine. The point of the rule is to prevent immersion breaking godmoding and metagaming of NPCs, not to outlaw any and all RP in front of NPCs without a DM on. It is not even really a new rule, more just specific language based on the already general no metagaming and godmoding of NPCs rules that the server already had.

Are guards able to see through invisibility? FAI guards, for example.

ctothep wrote:Are guards able to see through invisibility? FAI guards, for example.

This is a bit different topic, but the answer is that it depends on the situation and the guards IC and it would be best to ask the DM team with more specifics in mind.

Let's say that PCs are talking to each other, and one says or does something that might cause a NPC to react...

...like a tavern brawl.

Nope, can't do that, because ignoring the NPCs present (even if they aren't guards) is godmodding them.

...talking about IC racial slurs near a npc, even if it's not directed at the npc, the npc _might_ take offense.

...talking about 'unfriendly' PCs or NPCs around a NPC, like for example... maybe talking about how not all orcs, or drow, or surface elves (edit):are all bad, and that you personally know a drow that tried to help people..


...talking about planning or having committed a crime.

these are all things I've seen other people (and myself at times) do around NPCs.

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Are we allowed to RP on behalf of our familiars, companions or summons?


Can I RP a ranger's Monstrous Humanoid companion talking?

Can my character summon a imp/demon/angel/etc and RP it speaking or doing things?

If no, does that change if I'm a Thaumaturge?


edit: added missing text

I don't want to offend here, but almost every example here can be solved with common sense. Think about how the NPC 'might' react, and have your characters act in such a way that the NPC don't have to react.

so, metagame and godmod our own PCs, limiting their speech and actions so that the outcome always preseves the status quo of the npcs not being involved?


personally, I think it might be easier to completely avoid all npcs or npc owned props (like inns), so that rp isn't artificially limited

You control your own character, so yes. You adjust their behaviour, like one does with ones own behaviour in real life.

grymhild wrote:Are we allowed to RP on behalf of our familiars, companions or summons?

Can I RP a ranger's Monstrous Humanoid companion talking?

Can my character summon a imp/demon/angel/etc and RP it speaking or doing things?

If no, does that change if I'm a Thaumaturge?

I can't find any ruling against doing so. From my experience player-side, this is fairly common practice and can enhance roleplay, especially when the summons are played in a tasteful fashion to their lore counterparts. In other words, control of a summon doesn't give you license to play them in an immersion-destroying fashion in an attempt to cause conflict (i.e., summoning a balor and commanding it to hand flowers out to people at the Friendly Arm Inn. While I realize one could interpret this to be possible RAW, it's unrealistic enough to be disruptive to those people trying to RP there.)

The rules posted are clear, if not completely thorough in every situation. There's no need to have everything spelled out if players exercise common sense and discretion when it comes to gray areas. I believe that this thread was created in response to a particular DM ruling you received, and I want to remind you (and anyone reading) that DM rulings are final and absolute in all situations. I'm going to lock this before things get toxic. If you have any further question on the clarity of this rule, please contact the DM team.