Evil alignment turning cleric

[Moltrazahn]

Says itself.

Evil aligned cleric. High turn dc. Able to turn most of what's on the server if possible... and naturally able to hold its own in melee/ranged.

So. There is some freedom. Surface races only tho. God... dun matter.

[Considerate_]

Well that should be doable...

Pick the feat Empower Turning and Improved Turning, get the feat Extra Turning for some extra uses (I believe there's items in game that will allow you to get this feat, one of them is a necklace that's somewhat easier to get a hold of, so it's up for you if you want to use a neckslot or a feat on it), and that's about what you can do if you want to be evil

I'd suggest getting the domain Evil though, as that allows you to turn Outsiders as well.

Try to aim for a natural charisma at around 16 or 18 - there's not a whole lot of profit in rising it much further in my opinion, due to how the Turning System works.

Anyone else got some extra suggestions?
Without having Lathander as your characters deity, you can't get the Sun Domain or the PRC Doomguide/Morninglord of Lathander.

[Deathgrowl]

http://nwn2db.com/build/?226384

[Karond]

Says itself.

Evil aligned cleric. High turn dc. Able to turn most of what's on the server if possible... and naturally able to hold its own in melee/ranged.

So. There is some freedom. Surface races only tho. God... dun matter.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?226157

Can't turn the dracolich, no build can.

Can turn the balor and the UD Pit fiend, plus it can turn other outsiders and dragon druid PCs in addition to undead. The AB is -1 and DMG -2 compared to powerbuilt FS builds. Higher AC, with divine shield for extra. The turning power is considerable with 19 uses, but it's only turning 1-2 spawns of epic enemies in the vault etc. It's a character that won't turn masses of minions, it specializes in killing high level targets. The rest you're likely better of meleeing.

Example Spell Book for solo play, add in bonus spells from gear. It's enough stuff to last for 30 min full power, after which you can rest again:



If I played this, I would pick up the 10% slashing resistance cloak from the UD shop, and try to get the epic enkidu's fullplate for another 10% slashing. That's 20%, plus 10 from stonebody, really boosting defence since they stack. The only cleric slots you do care about is honestly level 5 ones, so you can push for extended recitations. Obviously, this build is made for a ring of toughness as well (+2 dex, +2 con, toughness) to pair with a good fullplate. The rest is AC equipment and trying to get some +UMD equipment to enable scroll casting up to level 9. If scrolls isn't important, downplay Intelligence and boost Constitution at the start.


Not to play the devil here, but I do have a ring (lvl5 cleric slot, +3 wis, 26 SR) and the enkidus fullplate for trade if you're interested


Oh, and I've pitched this build to someone else as well. So maybe you'll have a hunting partner seeking gory deaths all over the Sword Coast in Malar's name

[Hrothgar]

You really only need 22 base charisma, level 30 cleric, and no Improved Turning to be able turn a single level 30 undead, outsider (with evil domain or Planar Turning feat), and shapeshifters (with moon domain) with a 95% probability once buffed +4 charisma with eagle's splendor. I forget, but I think the spider domain might allow you to turn spiders as well and the plant domain might work for turning plant creatures, but I am not sure. This makes the Improved Turning feat less useful, but you could still take it to get 100% turning success on level 30 targets.

The build that Deathgrowl posted is a max charisma divine might/divine shield version with the advantages and disadvantages therein and the build that Karond posted is a EDM/divine shield oriented charisma/strength version.

Either of these can work, but unless your cleric has the evil domain, you cannot turn outsiders without the high charisma version as you need 25 charisma to be able to get the Planar Turning feat. The max charisma version will be able to turn somewhat higher quantities of targets given that it has a higher limit for total turning rolls beyond just a single creature, assuming all else held equal in terms of the Empower Turning feat, and has more turn uses and more time for divine shield, but less DPS than the EDM version, although still a lot of DPS since it is an OP cleric after all lol. Long term FAB will be in mid 40s with max charisma version and high 40s with EDM version.

The max charisma version also really does not need to get Improved Turning as the feat is pretty much pointless mechanically with that much charisma unless there are creatures to be turned that are 34 or 35 HD or something, but I think that all turn-able boss content on the server maxes at 30 HD, but someone please correct me if I am wrong. Empowered Turning in any case though makes turning masses of targets a lot easier due to that 1.5X bonus! The no Empowered Turning version Karond posted as he said will not do as well with more than 1 or 2 epic level turning targets, whereas Empowered Turning might make it possible to get up to 2-4 epic level turning targets.

All of the above options are doable by the way with a human build, which I encourage given that an Aasimar build is kind of difficult RP wise with an evil cleric.

As Karond said, a Malarite cleric, can get the moon and evil domains, so this cleric could turn undead, outsiders, and shapeshifters with these two domains, something no other cleric type on the server can do unless it is a cleric with a different moon domain god (Selune, Eilistraee, Sharindlar, Sehanine Moonbow, none of which have the evil domain) and the Planar Turning feat in a max charisma type cleric turner build.

[Blackman D]

there is no reason mathematically to actually have an overly high CHA mod for turning like considerate said, especial since one of the reason to go that high would be to get turn outsider which you can get through domain power

empowered turning is a must, its the reason you can get away with lower cha because the damage roll gets a x1.5 mod with it

you can arguably do without improved turning, however there are undead that exceed 30HD, one of which if i remember right is either 34 or 35HD, so without improved you cant touch it, and the draco is 40HD, its impossible either way because it simply exceeds the cap

here is this from a while back that breaks down the checks (the original thread its from was deleted in clean up but i kept a copy of it because it keeps coming up)

here is how turning works, two checks, one for max HD and one for total HD

max HD check is 1d20 + CHA mod + any other bonuses (sun domain gets extra 1d6, improved turning gets +1 level)

if result is 0 or lower max HD equals cleric level minus 4
if result is 1-3 max HD equals cleric level minus 3
if result is 4-6 max HD equals cleric level minus 2
if result is 7-9 max HD equals cleric level minus 1
if result is 10-12 max HD equals cleric level
if result is 13-15 max HD equals cleric level plus 1
if result is 16-18 max HD equals cleric level plus 2
if result is 19-21 max HD equals cleric level plus 3
if result is 22 or higher max HD equals cleric level plus 4

total HD check is 2d6 + cleric level + CHA mod + any other bonuses (sun domain gets extra 1d4, empower turning multiples by 1.5 after)

then if your turning class level is x2 of the HD of undead and you successfully rebuke them they are utterly destroyed

so with my cleric lynn, she has a +4 CHA buffed and gets all the extra bonuses, so shes rolls 5 + d20 + d6 for max HD, so on average she'd be rolling an 18 and gets her level +2 for a 29 HD undead as her max currently

damage would be 2d6 + 27 + 4 + d4 then x1.5, on average would be about 58 total HD, she actually rolls more like 65 tho because she always turns at least three undead in the vault who are all (all being the normal guys) 20-24HD

MLs are awesome

so basically with a 30 turn progression, max HD cap is a 34, 35 with improved turning, but the roll is mostly on the d20, if you have a 20 cha naturally, 24 with eagles, you would need to roll a 15+ to hit the HD cap

and given it is purposely dependent on the d20 there is little reason to dump a lot into cha and take away from other stats, without the sun domain tho yea you want it a bit high, just not too high that you are weak in other areas

the total HD dice just decides how strong of an undead you can hit, the vault ranges 22-34/35HD, the damage is the total amount you can kill with one turn

so going with the 30 cleric with a 20 nat cha, you would have (2d6 + 30 + 7), essentially about a 42 total damage on average (49 max), with empowered however, that x1.5 becomes 63 on average (73.5 max) so yea you kinda need that feat

that translates to 2 normal undead guaranteed to be turned in the vault, possibly 3 if you roll a high average and you are capped out on your damage dice

the revs are the ones that are 35HD, so either way if you roll high enough you are only safely gonna turn one but possible (most so if you are ML, ive done it) to turn two at a time

but again, you dont need an overly high CHA to do this, its your cleric level and turning progression that matters more, luckily for ML it doesnt take away from your cleric bonuses to turn

edit: i remember now, revs are like 29HD its the casters on the 3rd floor that are the 35HD

[Karond]

With my build, on average you turn 45 HD. Most Vault spawns are 23 HD. So, 42% of the time you turn 2 enemies, otherwise 1. If you skip luck of heroes and pick up empowered turning, you would instead turn 67,5 HD on average, which means that 28% of the time you turn 3 enemies, otherwise 2. Is that worth the effort? Eh, maybe, your call.

However, as the others say Deathgrowl's build is going overboard with Charisma. That build does turn 73,5 HD on average, which translates to 92% chance to turn 3 enemies at the vault with 23HD, and the other 8% it's just 2 enemies. Consdier however that you are usually only facing two enemies anyway, and you might not want to spend uses on weaker foes unless it's a revenant.

You end up with 3 more uses of turn undead with Deathgrowl's build, but considering that EDM allows a use of turn undead to last twice as long, and you should actually benefit more from my version. The melee is considerably better as well, with +5 AB, +9 DMG per hit, and of course the ability to turn dragon druids and other shapeshifters. It really only has that 5% success rate going for it.


Of course, the HD of the enemies will vary with DM spawns and other spawns as you level up. The Hellhounds near the Fire giants are like 26-28 HD, which means the empowered turning turns 1 enemy into 2. That said, +1 AC and +1 universal saves is pretty good to have too

[Karond]

I guess you can switch out Luck of Heroes in my build for improved turning as well, but that's more niche. On the one hand, you eliminate that 5% chance of failure. On the other, the improvement in turning power is marginal.

Like, consider those 23 HD vault spawns. With luck of heroes, it was 42% for 2 turned enemies. With improved turning, it's 58%. Still, that might make it better than empower in this case?

I would stick with luck of heroes, you can trust in that bonus at least (or pick up a martial weapon profiency here, or even exotic for those kama claws)

[Blackman D]

well i guess it would depend on how much one thinks luck of heroes is worth to a cleric

because honestly when you can heal yourself pretty damn well, 1 AC and 1 saves isnt all that important, especially saves since reflex is the only crap one on a cleric and +1 isnt gonna help you at all

its a good feat sure, just depends on how much ease of turning he is looking for i guess

also yea, most the time you only fight 2 or 3 undead at a time in the vault, my cleric had 18 turns and never went thru all of them on her runs by the time she ran out of combat spells

[Storm Munin]

Get the DMs to sponsor some crazy spider worshipper following Lolth surfaceside, then pick evil and spider for domains.

Now you can turn undead, spiders and outsiders (which should include lv20 favored souls and shapechanged mages, druids, warlocks and their ilk?).

Sad part is that you still need to invest heavily into turning feats to be effective.


Good or neutral can turn outsiders too as mentioned but need that CHA 25 for the planar turning feat.
A CHA 25 lathandrite cleric/morninglord10 with the sun domain should be the nastiest among what you seek?


Being a strong believer in nonstandard builds I already have a CHA 25 evil priestess build in progress and she perform nicely in the mids even if she could be seen as stunted in combat mechanics by the choice of stat to max.
So what, thats not the point of the build.

[Moltrazahn]

Would it benefit a build like this if you went cleric 24/monk3/black guard 3?

I know you nerf the turn dc by... what.. 5? But for that you get bonus saves. Bg aura. Expose weakness. Tumble as natural skill. Evasion etc.

[mrm3ntalist]

Would it benefit a build like this if you went cleric 24/monk3/black guard 3?

I know you nerf the turn dc by... what.. 5? But for that you get bonus saves. Bg aura. Expose weakness. Tumble as natural skill. Evasion etc.

That would gimp your turning abilities quite a lot. You lose 2 epic feats as well.

Clerics have good saves. The weakest being reflex, but that can be helped by items.

As a cleric of Auril, you can choose water and evil domains for evasion and turn outsider. Therefore you dont need the monk dip anymore.

Hidden: show

If turning undead is your focus ( and evil is not ) dont be scared to try a high CHA build. A cleric10/Lathanderite10/Warpriest10 will get you full turning abilities and because of the Warpriests High BAB it will be easier to hit even without divine power, saving those for when it matters. High CHA means long durations of Divine Shield and Divine Might, where the Extra turning feats will pump your TU uses to 25+

I believe that is the best Turning undead level split, with decent melee abilities. At least until the Hierophant PRC comes out which seems very promising regarding TU

[Blackman D]

if you cut your turn progression by even 5 that means your max HD becomes 29-30, even revs will be hard to turn at that point and you wouldnt be able to touch the casters on the 3rd floor at all not to mention having a 28 CL with PSC now so if you get hit by mords you risk losing things

28 CL can still be stripped by the casters and the draco

warpriest if i remember right was given full turning progression, im not sure if it works out the same as ML tho bc ive never tried it (with not gimping any bonuses, it should tho)