Armored Monk - Is it worth it?

[Ahku]

Hello All,

I have been toying with the Idea of an Armored monk (this is a concept experiment only)
Fighter 4 / Monk 26

Starting stats: (example only)
Str 16 <-- all extra points to str.
Con 16
Dex 13
Int 10
Wis 10 (maybe 13 for fire fist)
Cha 10

Would end up with: (example only)
Gloves +3 (EB)
full plate +3
Tower Shield +3
Boots +3
Helm +3
Amulet +3
Ring of Might (+2 str & con)

Feats he would take:
weapon focus - unarmed
Weapon spec - unarmed
power attack, improved power attack
cleave, great cleave
Unarmed Mastery

Do to armor he would NOT get monk speed, flurry of blows, correct?
Would there be any other monk abilities affected by his use of armor?

He could take shield bash as an extra weapon as well...

Even with these limitations he would still do more damage with his fist than most weapons.

Any comments or ideas about this approach?
Am very curious!

(Yes, this idea I got from Capt. America)

thanks!

[mrieder79]

You should do the math and see if it would be worthwhile to go 12 fighter/18 monk. that way you get an extra +6 damage from the other fighter feats.

[Ahku]

perhaps, but would that balance out the loss in extra damage from fist attacks?

[Ahku]

Ideally I would have liked the following:

Fighter 3
Weapon Master (unarmed, or shield bash?) 7
can a weapon master take shield bash as his Weapon of Choice?

Monk 20

too bad unarmed or shield bash cannot be a WM skill...or can it?

[mrieder79]

perhaps, but would that balance out the loss in extra damage from fist attacks?

Im not sure. I would have to look at the unarmed damage tables.

[Thorsson]

There seems to be some confusion here. Monk26 gets 2d10 fist damage, that's an average of 11. Monk18 gets 2d6, that's an average of 7. These are not exactly huge numbers, especially when you compare to the added damage from Fighter and Strength.

Fists also have a low critical threat range and multiplier - absolute madness to be going for WM.

You also lose the Monk AC bonus wearing Armor OFC. IMO the whole idea is flawed as you get way more damage with a simple F/FB.

OTOH I did do an Armored Fist build a long time ago and far away. What I used was Favored Soul with an Unarmed Deity. Don't recall the rest, but it should be easy to see that this would easily outdamage F4/M26, let alone all the other benefits.

[mrieder79]

Thorsson is right. The damage you would glean isn't much more than a regular fighter build. Also, why wear armor? If you are only taking 4 levels of fighter, just build it like a monk and your AC will be really good anyway. You won't need armor. I guess maybe you were just looking at it from the RP perspective for an armored monk?

[chad878262]

What about FS 19/monk 11 (or 21/9 or maybe mix in some sacred fist?)

[Thorsson]

What about FS 19/monk 11 (or 21/9 or maybe mix in some sacred fist?)

You don't need to take Monk, and given you are going to wear Armor then I'd suggest that it isn't a great idea.

I found the one I made earlier.

[DM Bloodlust]

Moved to character building.

[R0ninknight]

Unfortunately this is one character concept the developers seemed to go out of their way to punish and prevent. Armored Monk feats (Epic?) like Armored Caster feats would be awesome but I don't know of their viability, balance, or degree of difficulty to create. Barring that you're just busting yourself with the nerf bat.

[Deathgrowl]

Monk26 gets 2d10 fist damage, that's an average of 11.

Only for halflings and gnomes. 3d8 (average 13,5) for others.

Nitpicking, I know!

[Theodore01]

and unarmed mastery gets deactivated if wielding a shield
(\\that's an undocumented and absolute unnecessary nerf here.)

http://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=45366

[R0ninknight]

Oh I've love to see fewer restrictions on base classes in order to open up player creativity... alas, that just isn't the case.
Honestly every instance of 'I don't like that rule telling me I can't do this' is solved with 'lets make a prestige class to get around that arbitrary rule'. Spellsword is a great example. I love the idea of casting in heavy armor. DnD said "Hey! No! Hold your horses! I will punish you if you try that.' It might have good reason but hey, that's one cool character concept down the drain so its a lose-lose. The solution was various prestige classes that allow casting in heavy armor at least eventually.
I'd like to see more of those PrC's here and in PWs in general. Expecting people to burn 3 epic feat slots is.... unbalancingly harsh. I just accept that's the way it is right now.
I would suggest similar with 'armored monk'- which I happen to think is a cool idea, personally. Without some sort of staff development here to support the idea with a new PrC or perhaps new epic feats, though, Wizards of the Coast has already set out to screw you in a way you don't want when it comes to this character concept.

[Thorsson]

Arcane Casting in Heavy Armor is very powerful; make it too easy and you get overrun with casters in heavy armor. D&D has actually become too easy to make mega-powerful characters under WotC; there have been several demonstrations of this, starting with Pun Pun.