Guild Halls and Inactivity

[metaquad4]

*This idea assumes that more areas on a server cause a decrease in server resources, lag, etc*

So! There are a fair few guild halls that are on the server right now, that go unused for whatever reason (guild died out, lost interest, leader left, etc). Not to name any names, but, I personally know of at least four, and I am positive there are more around.

I propose a measure be put into place, so that these unused guildhalls can be destroyed, hopefully to save server resources that could be better allocated to something the server can enjoy.

Checks should be conducted (say, every two months), of guild forums (and possibly IG, though, this is far more difficult). If there hasn't been enough evidence of IG activity*, then the guild should be given a four week warning that, unless they show evidence of IG activity as a guild, the guild hall will be destroyed, and a 70% gold refund will be given to the person whom purchased the guild hall.
(*Evidence of IG activity: Fourm posts, accompanied by IG screenshots of guild members performing the activity, DMs giving evidence of events being performed for the specific guild, and any other reasonable evidence that clearly displays the guild as active IG.)

This will allow again, for server resources to not be hogged up by empty, and relatively unused guild halls. Four weeks seems like a sufficient warning to a guild to display activity, though, this could of course be increased or decreased. Finally, a 70% gold refund (again, can be increased or decreased) will ensure that the resources, time, and (in all likelyhood) frustrating amounts of grinding will largely not go in vain. The refund would be documented as soon as the guild is destroyed, as how much should be refunded, and whom the refund should go to (probably a thread in DM land). The refund will stay forever, until the person whom bought the guild decides to collect on it. If the person whom bought the guild does not answer in a reasonable amount of time, then, the remaining active guild members can petition to receive the gold, on a "first come, first serve" basis.

Guilds with public buildings, which are separate, could have an event surrounding them for their departure, so as to explain how they "vanish". For example, if someone's guild hall was a house in the middle of high moor, perhaps some of the local creatures ransacked and destroyed it.

So, in summary:
-Check guild forums periodically
-If guilds are found to be too inactive, send them a four week warning in advance that unless they display IG activity, they will be deleted and mostly refunded for the gold cost.
-If the guild does not display IG activity, delete the guild hall
-Offer the person who payed for the guild hall a 70% gold refund
-If the refund is not accepted in a reasonable amount of time, send a PM to the guild, allowing one of the remaining guild members to receive the gold ("First come, first serve")

Hopefully this will:
-Increase server space, decrease the resources that areas use. Perhaps allowing for new areas, too.
-Remain fair to the guild members, giving them a chance to "defend" themselves, or to receive a refund for the inactive guild hall.

[PiaMango]

I don't think unloaded areas (area's that don't have PC's in it at any moment) would increase lag that substantially. But it may be better one of the dev's comment on this.

I know a lot of guilds go through periods of inactivity, sometimes months at a time. I don't think they should be punished for that. For the guilds who have halls on public maps you would need to address the RP relation to why the hall would suddenly disappear as well.

[maulofthetitans55]

YES YES YES! Finally someone to address this nonsense.

Even aside from wasting server space, there's a lot of hidden consequences to letting inactive guilds linger on. It's very confusing for a new player to click on the guild forums and see a ton of guilds to choose from only to find out after months of RP that more then half of them are either mostly inactive, completely inactive, event hoppers or leaderless.

Letting guild halls linger for eternity without the threat of deletion only encourages players to half a$$ guilds and come and go as they please regardless of IG responsibilities. Completely inactive guilds like the Kogan's or the leaderless ones like Coven of Shadows should have been deleted long ago. Additionally guilds with leaders that only log in for events should be deleted or passed to DM's in the case of focal guilds like Helzak or The Red Wizards.

When you as a guild leader decide to leave the server for a year your guild should not be sitting there with a full inbox awaiting your return, it should be in ruins. Furthermore if you are a guild leader and you know you can't give your guild the attention it deserves, ffs please pass the guild down to anyone else or give it to DM's. Don't linger on half a$$ing everything with a character you don't even main anymore. It's disrespectful to the server, the guild and all who are involved.

[thids]

If the guild halls are such a strain on server resources, wouldn't it be more prudent to make the rules for acquiring a guild hall more strict? You know, instead of giving them to flavor of the month guilds that fall apart after the first bump in the road? Then again, I doubt guild hall areas are a huge strain on server resources.

As for the refund, isn't the gold payment there for this EXACT reason? To act as a sort of insurance with which the guild members show commitment?

[metaquad4]

I know a lot of guilds go through periods of inactivity, sometimes months at a time. I don't think they should be punished for that.

Yeah, that is why I suggested the 70% gold refund. In fact, I would personally want it as a 100% gold refund, but, I wasn't sure how that would be received. That way, all a guild would need to do is take the refund, and become active enough again to get their guildhall "back".

For the guilds who have halls on public maps you would need to address the RP relation to why the hall would suddenly disappear as well.

Yeah, that would need to be addressed. I suggested an appropriate event, that way some RP could be generated around it. RP generated is never bad.

[metaquad4]

As for the refund, isn't the gold payment there for this EXACT reason? To act as a sort of insurance with which the guild members show commitment?

I would hope so, yeah. Then again, people can grind. And when you do that serious, mind grueling, awful, horrible, terrible grind with a good build (or with buddies), you can make a good amount of gold in a fairly short amount of time (especially, if you get lucky with epic item drops). Maybe some sort of system, using rare epic items as "insurance"? :\ I'm sure they'd still become inactive anyway, due to guild leaders leaving, moving to alts, interest dying, etc. (People who didn't buy the guild hall would probably be inclined to "vanish" anyway, the onus isn't always 100% on the person who paid)

I believe also RP should be required, if it isn't already. A few months worth of RP, even. (Pretty sure RP is required, though. I've seen my fair share of guilds die out before they got a hall, simply from a lack of RP suddenly (usually due to the leader leaving)). RP seems to be a decent filter, but, there are still a few guild halls out there (and more than a few guilds on the forums, I'm sure. I'm a in a bunch!), which are inactive.

[DM Golem]

Inactive guilds has been something I've given some thought too really, and we had some talk about the issue DM side. It will be interesting to hear the communities take on it; we generally keep our noses out of guild business as staff.

[maulofthetitans55]

Any gold refund would be ludicrous as it encourage's people to take their own guilds even less seriously then they do now. I could just fund a new guild hall every other month with little consequence. Having your guild inserted into bgtscc for everyone to react to is a huge deal and should require upkeep and availability on the leaders part.

In other words if you aren't willing to maintain your guild for the long term or spend a ton of gold that you'll never see again you simply don't deserve a guild. If you're burnt out that's fine just pass the guild on to someone that's willing(or the DM's) but don't try to run it on an alt you barely even play or worse, disappear for a year with zero consequence.

Unfortunately the players that this post applies to will continue to do as they've always done. That's where the Dm's come in. Maybe a bi monthly guild assessment can lessen the amount of pointless, inactive guilds that repetitively make a short reappearance before quickly dying off again.

[thids]

As for the refund, isn't the gold payment there for this EXACT reason? To act as a sort of insurance with which the guild members show commitment?

I would hope so, yeah. Then again, people can grind. And when you do that serious, mind grueling, awful, horrible, terrible grind with a good build (or with buddies), you can make a good amount of gold in a fairly short amount of time (especially, if you get lucky with epic item drops). Maybe some sort of system, using rare epic items as "insurance"? :\ I'm sure they'd still become inactive anyway, due to guild leaders leaving, moving to alts, interest dying, etc. (People who didn't buy the guild hall would probably be inclined to "vanish" anyway, the onus isn't always 100% on the person who paid)

I believe also RP should be required, if it isn't already. A few months worth of RP, even. (Pretty sure RP is required, though. I've seen my fair share of guilds die out before they got a hall, simply from a lack of RP suddenly (usually due to the leader leaving)). RP seems to be a decent filter, but, there are still a few guild halls out there (and more than a few guilds on the forums, I'm sure. I'm a in a bunch!), which are inactive.

I'm sure there are inactive guilds, even some that will likely never see any roleplay ever again. But I don't see a point in outright destroying (deleting) the guildhalls if they don't put a strain on the server. They can always be used for various things, especially if they are well built. You are required to show RP and activity both on the forums and ingame for 6 months before you qualify for a guild hall I believe.

IMO the main problem with guilds/factions on the server and how often they go completely inactive is the system for "making" one and the fact that the words "Guild" and "faction" encourage creating big groups (usually "the bigger the better") for the sake of nudging a bunch of people with one vague similarity in the same big group, so that they can belong to something. A better system would be one which encourages people to create adventuring parties, which stick together through thick and thin (...or they don't? Who knows!) In the true spirit of D&D. Factions should really be limited to heavily established ones, with emphasis on lore factions. People do too much "armchair captaining" in a game that should revolve around adventuring as it is.

[maulofthetitans55]

Plenty of small group adventuring guilds have been tried and failed. The real problem is the complete lack of accountability for leaders maintaining their guilds. Plain and simple.

Right now the server is like a billboard outside an old supermaket. There's a million fliers with a million different offers and promotions and later you find out almost none of them are valid. We desperately need the DM's/staff to metaphorically rip the old, pointless fliers off the billboard

[thids]

Plenty of small group adventuring guilds have been tried and failed. The real problem is the complete lack of accountability for leaders maintaining their guilds. Plain and simple.

Yes, guilds. That's the problem. The system encourages you to make a guild or a faction out of it instead of sticking to the adventuring party theme. That should change IMO, though there are difficulties that would have to be taken into consideration etc.

[DM Bloodlust]

If given the choice, I would rather see old guildhalls updated. Make them appear looted and deserted, add a few hostile spawns, and then we turn an empty area into one that everyone can enjoy. The area even has some history to it, which makes it interesting.

Umm, but maybe some exception if the area is hideous. Having seen all the guildhalls, it's my personal opinion that many of them are hideous. I get it from a developing point of view. You make a guild area, so of course it's going to be as badass and flashy and cool as possible, but most of them are horrible. Tons of crammed lights and VFX effects, placables that make no sense, rooms that never get used (because every guild need an extensive library, garden, kitchen and what not?). Few guildhalls are believable places where people would actually be.

But I guess making these places even more demolished would cover that up. In truth though, we need more dungeons and such, so why not use the areas already in place for starters.

[Mendoza]

If given the choice, I would rather see old guildhalls updated. Make them appear looted and deserted, add a few hostile spawns, and then we turn an empty area into one that everyone can enjoy. The area even has some history to it, which makes it interesting.

Wasn't this done with the old Thieves Guild area? I found that an awesome little addition to the server. Made it a nice secret meeting spot with some history to it.

[maulofthetitans55]

If given the choice, I would rather see old guildhalls updated. Make them appear looted and deserted, add a few hostile spawns, and then we turn an empty area into one that everyone can enjoy. The area even has some history to it, which makes it interesting.

Umm, but maybe some exception if the area is hideous. Having seen all the guildhalls, it's my personal opinion that many of them are hideous. I get it from a developing point of view. You make a guild area, so of course it's going to be as badass and flashy and cool as possible, but most of them are horrible. Tons of crammed lights and VFX effects, placables that make no sense, rooms that never get used (because every guild need an extensive library, garden, kitchen and what not?). Few guildhalls are believable places where people would actually be.

But I guess making these places even more demolished would cover that up. In truth though, we need more dungeons and such, so why not use the areas already in place for starters.

Haha agreed, though you kind of answered your own question. Since most of them are hideous, laggy, non immersive they would make terrible dungeons by default. If they aren't even believable as a guild hall they'd be far less believable as a dungeon.

There's also a lot of current dungeons you could tamper with that go mostly unused. You could easily delete or change the cathedral dungeon near beregost for instance. No one would ever go to the pirate cave if it wasn't for the SANDwitch quest but that's a different topic entirely I suppose lol.

[metaquad4]

If given the choice, I would rather see old guildhalls updated. Make them appear looted and deserted, add a few hostile spawns, and then we turn an empty area into one that everyone can enjoy. The area even has some history to it, which makes it interesting.

This idea, I like. Maybe it wouldn't work for all the guild halls, but, for the guild halls where it could work, it would provide nice new dungeons.