Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Any feedback on the City areas?

Did something change between the last time I played and now?

Awesome. The team getting interested in the UD once more :D Boy do I have a lot to say to you guys on Sshamath! Some of them are going to be a little harsh, so please, don't hate me! I have nothing against the Team at all and am glad that it was created, it's just some things seem a bit... eh, you'll see what I mean. For reference I'd ask you to look at this map as we go forward.

Firstly I'd like to point out the size of the city. It's... small. Sshamath is supposed to be roughly 3 miles wide from West to East, and somewhere closer to 8 miles wide North to South. More importantly, on the server it's the only UD city, as far as I am aware as a lowbie, that we can even get to. It's where ALL the social action and events go on. As an UD player if you're not killing things out in the tunnels you're back in Sshamath.

So my first request would be to please make Sshamath a bit more grand? It's currently got 2 exterior zones where most of the action happens and 1 zone that is for some reason a combat zone, despite the City Mythal being supposed to fry any creature that attacks a citizen. Baldur's Gate has 3 exterior Main city zones, 2 exterior zones that are the farmlands surrounding it, and a final exterior zone that is more or less a barrier to the South. I'm not asking to have Sshamath match that exterior zone count (although I'd love it if that was on the table) but perhaps splitting the city into quadrants rather than halves?

More on the "grandness" of the city is that were also missing a LOT of the stuff in Sshamath. No less than 8 of the Schools, the Shattered Scepter, The Quillspires, and the Cage. All of which would add a certain facet to the RP available down in the UD. The Schools are obvious, the Shattered Scepter would be a great place to move the Player Spawn Point to rather than the Gloura's Wings Festhall, The Quillspires would be a good place to place all the scroll merchants as well as the Librarian, as well as being a great place to RP when researching things non-magical, and the Cage could be a great place to put in some Hunting quest starters as well as RP for discussing UD creatures and what not. I know that the schools at least would be a lot of work to make interiors for, but could at least their exteriors be made, so at least we can walk up to said building and then have a DM port us to an appropriate DM zone rather than having the Bodyguard of the Master of the School of Illusion just traipse into the Gloura's Wings to get a DM event going?

Also, spreading out from Sshamath itself would be the zones surrounding it. Varalla's passage is only supposed to go straight for the surface, it was literally created just for that purpose by the Lich Queen at the behest of the Conclave and doesn't connect to other travel points. Oghrann is not West of Sshamath, but East. The Gauth Grottoes containing the beholderkin should be between Sshamath and Oghrann. Basically what I'm saying is that the Underdark zones don't really line up with their lore at all, and Sshamath lacks a lot of exits. There's an exit on its East side heading for the Gauth Grottoes and Oghrann, and a Southern exit heading for the Giant's Chalice (a LowerDark lake) and presumably a branching path that leads towards the various cities to the Southeast and beyond the Giant's Chalice to the South.

The Z'orr'bauth (The big central pillar that currently leads to Varalla's passage) would instead head North and West how we have it, heading towards the Netherese ruins to the Southwest and Ched Nasad as well as other cities up North.

Now back to the city itself. Sshamath is supposed to be the absolute brightest Drow settlement on the entire continent of Faerun. It's supposed to be so bright in Sshamath that other Underdark denizens who come to visit are actually dazzled by it, making it a tactical bonus of the city. As it is, it's dark enough that I need to use my Darkvision in order to distinguish any color besides purple if its not directly within a light source.

A few of the things in the city have been rearranged from the lore as well. You can actually go behind the Darkspires, which is supposed to be set right into the Southern Wall of the cavern, and the Darkwoods got moved from a corner in the Southeast to taking up the whole southern edge of the map. The rest really isn't specifically placed but it would be nice to have the whole place line up with the map above just so we can take a look at it and find our way.

*looks at what he's written up to this point* I know I'm missing some stuff, probably having to do with the interiors, but I think that's more than enough for now. I would please let it be known that this feedback is more or less simply for the sake of replying to the original question. I know that what I propose here would take a hell of a lot of work and may not be feasible at all given the limited ability of the NWN2 Toolset.

Anyway, thank you for reading all this, hope this actually helps somehow!

Tsidkenu wrote:Did something change between the last time I played and now?

Hopefully the messenger NPCs are working now.

I did notice more NPCs wandering around the city (and some duplicates of duplicated NPCs )

I'll try out the message system tomorrow and let ya know.

Well, I tried out the NPC messenger system and it still seems to be broken. Could not get messages sent to or from the other kind player I tested with.

I like Sshamath as it is atm. I moreso feel the UD needs upgraded content in general, places similar to the wyrm cave, and places where as epics we can go. We have Duergar Compound, and underdark wilds. Wilds to me is the biggest let down in the UD, it just feels incomplete

Israe wrote:I like Sshamath as it is atm. I moreso feel the UD needs upgraded content in general, places similar to the wyrm cave, and places where as epics we can go. We have Duergar Compound, and underdark wilds. Wilds to me is the biggest let down in the UD, it just feels incomplete

I totally agree with this...

This is how you lvl in the UD...

Goblins til lvl 15.
Mines til lvl 20.
Compound til lvl 30.


I mean cmon, gotta give us something down there other than just the stupid duergars, we are already playing an ECL +2 race!

As Israe said the wilds is just incomplete, and then there is the Oghran Ruins, there is one door you can use out of maybe 10? More content out there as well please..
Its a lot of work, believe me I know but we could really use some love down there..

Theres so many cities on the surface and only one in the UD, yes I know the UD dont see nearly as much activity, BUT maybe if more content was put in down there, there would actually be more players.

Right now the DM team is doing there part down there, and I am very grateful for that! Drows might be mean and evil, but they still need some love!

I agree with psy and israe...

Duergar compound is a bit too small for my taste aswell. You have the upper lvl which is pretty tiny and then straight to the area with the pit fiend. One or two areas in between would be really nice.

I'd really love some dungeon for epics (preferably with mobs hard enough that you need a group of 2 or 3... making it impossible to solo) with 4 or 5 levels and a dragon to slay at the end... i'd really love a dragon boss in the UD

I'm a complete noob when it comes to building but i mean you could just copy some large dungeon from the surface and paste it into the UD. Do some minor changes and put mobs in there with 1 or 2 bosses. Cloakwood mines or the gnoll caves come to mind. I am sure there are many more which could just be copy pasted for the most part.

Cel'Daren wrote:Firstly I'd like to point out the size of the city. It's... small.

It's more favorable to condense content into a single area or two than it is to have a sprawling metropolis that is largely unused. Sshamath south is visited only during quests once a week.

That said, poising more areas just to imply hunting grounds for leveling mechanics and maybe a quest seems to be too much extra effort to be necessary when encounters could be modified based on the level of the player character entering, scaled accordingly.

Add areas only when it makes sense to expand on a theme that brings more content than another grind zone.

Wasn't there talk about adding the minotaur maze to the UD a while ago?
To me it sounded like a good idea primarily because it makes less sense for duergar PC:s (if they have some notion of racial pride in them ) to hunt their own kin for the majority of their upper levels.
So maybe that area copied/transferred to the UD would have been a good alternative for 15/20+ level grinding for some chars?

Subject: S'shamath messengers, guidelines

DM Ioulaum wrote:Hello,

As of the beginning of this year (2016) the S'shamath messenger system has gone live and is working. I tested this as a DM with another player. Messengers can be dispatched and will deliver their message to the target player. They cost 50gp to send. S'shamath only at the moment. These messages can be pending delivery for at least a month, so they have obvious value to communicate in-characterly between players.

Please use these NPCs with the maturity we are accustomed to. It is my understanding that they are an exception to the rule that players may not roleplay what NPC's should do. In this case you can tell the messenger what message to deliver to his target.

Obviously if its a criminal message there are still rule concerns. Hiring a messenger to deliver your evil plans verbally is not something that messenger would presumably consent to. But there are exceptions to this as well: S'shamath contains a number of messenger types:

• Slaves (from the Bazaar slave master)
  Servitors (School of Mages)
  Gloura's (Bar)
  Drow (I don't know where)
  Duergar (Spires)

And probably more. Only Rasael knows.

Rasael wrote:Any feedback on the City areas?

Can we get more temples? It is not IC for my Tanarukk to ask a Lolthite to heal him. Maybe add a Duergar god, an Orc god, and perhaps a neutral god (gnome or human). Considering how many temples are on the surface (like 20ish?) and there is exactly one in the entirety of the UD makes no sense to me.

Deep Duerra works well as a dwarven temple because Laudager would not tolerate a temple in a non dwarven city (he is a very xenophobic god). Deep Duerra is know for expansion and attempting to establish relations with other races including psionics.

Luthic or Shargaas make great options for the orc deity. I believe the orcs on the surface have been RPing for a temple of gruumsh so one of these lesser deities would fill the role really well.

Callarduran Smoothhands would be a fantastic choice for a neutral deity. God of the Svirnefblin (deep gnomes) and of the underdark!

I am aware the city may find it tough to stomach non drow deities holding any form of power however I see no reason for their not to be a entirely separate settlement of "Escaped slaves" in the UD. A small fortress hidden and guarded where perhaps Drow are not even allowed? This would give more variation to the UD.

Edit: It would be cool if there was a boss mob in the UD that was a Human Paladin with smite evil and all that goodly stuff xD

Some good suggestions there, ASD.

If I could expand: there is now a second temple in the city, to Vhaeraun (Darkwoods Tower of the Masked Mage). It is an excellent addition but this could go further. There are heaps of internal houses/transitions in Darkwoods now. I could totally envisage one of them secreting a shrine to Callurdan (via a secret passage after a conversation with the gnome resident). Same for other deities: a shrine to Zinzereena could get put in the crypts under the city, Selvetarm could be added in the Commander's tent in Sshamath south, perhaps, and Deep Duerra would be a simple addition to the Darkspires.

The tower to Vhaeraun has no active clergy inside. Similar to Kraak helzak there is a high priest that cannot heal people.