Rework Background Trait Feats

[metaquad4]

Background Trait Feats!

Only luck of heroes and spellcasting prodigy (arguably Artist and Silver Palm as well, in perform and bluff high builds respectively) are really all that useful. I suggest re-working the other feats to be on par, forcing some sort of choice to be had in this department.

All proposed changes are listed in the spoilers under the feats themselves. I did my best to keep to the spirit of the original PnP feats, whilst still giving each some flare of their own.

Artist: Character gains a +2 bonus on Perform and Diplomacy checks (And 3/day uses of bardsong, capping at max bardsong capacity)

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+3 Perform, +3/day uses of bardsong (uncapped). If you do not have bardsong uses you obtain the feat Bardic Song, but cannot use it for anything other than qualifying for PRCs, unless specified by another class.

Blooded: Character gains a +2 bonus on Initiative and Spot checks

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+3 Spot, +3 Listen, +3 Reflex Saves
+5% Movement Speed, +3 vs Fear, +2 Reflex

Bullheaded: Character gains a +2 bonus to resist Taunt, and +1 bonus to Will saving throws

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+3 Will Saves, +4 Saves vs Mind Effecting
+2 vs taunt, +2 vs Mind Effecting, +2 will saves

Courteous Magocracy: Character gains a +2 bonus on Lore and Spellcraft checks

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+4 Appraise, +4 Diplomacy, +4 Spellcraft, For every crafting feat you have, you gain +1 to appraise, diplomacy, and spellcraft.
+3 lore, +3 spellcraft, Bonus Language

Flirt: Character gains +1 to Listen and Diplomacy , but -2 to Intimidate

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+3 Diplomacy, +3 Bluff, +1 DCs on bard songs and enchantment spells.
+3 Bluff, +3 Diplomacy, -3 Intimidate

Mind Over Body: Character uses Int modifier instead of Con for bonus hit points at level 1, and any metamagic or spellcasting feat grants +1 hit points.

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Your Character uses their INT Modifier instead of CON to determine bonus hit points. Any metamagic or spellcasting feats you take grant +1 fortitude saves. You will not gain any benefit from toughness, steadfast determination, or epic toughness. Your CON no longer determines your fortitude save, none of your stats will do this.
+2 HP per point of INT mod. +3 HP per meta-magic feat. +1 Will/-1 Fort

Silver Palm: Character gains a +2 bonus on Appraise, Bluff, and Diplomacy checks

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+3 Appraise, +3 Bluff, 5% discount on all wares from NPCs.
+3 Appraise, +3 Diplomacy, 5% discount

Snake Blood: Character gains a +1 bonus to Reflex saving throws, and +2 saving throw bonus against poisons

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+3 Reflex Saves, +3 Saves vs Poison, Add a +2 DC to all poisons you use.
+2 Reflex Saves, and the ability to use poisons safely.

Strong Soul: Character gains a +1 bonus to Fortitude & Will saving throws, and +1 saving throw bonus against Death magic

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WIS determines your Fortitude Save. If you have steadfast determination, add your CON to your Will Save instead of replacing.
+2 vs Death Effects, +2 vs Negative Energy, and Immunity to Sickened

Thug: Character gains a +2 bonus on Appraise, Initiative, and Intimidate checks

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+3 Intimidate, you can use this feat as if it were demoralize opponent (DC 10+1/2 Hit Dice+1/2 Intimidate or become shaken). If you already have demoralize opponent, or obtain it, add 1/4 of your intimidate score to your demoralize opponent DC.

Thoughts! Discuss!

Edit: 06/11/2015

[Karond]

The background traits could use an upgrade, but I think you brought on a bit too much "mad scientist" into these feats, as you've turned them all into super-powered feats better than what's out there. While you can only pick one of these feats, I do feel that finding a middle road between this suggestion and the original is best, leaning heavily towards the originals.

Plus, you left out prodigy and luck of heroes for a good reason, and the other feats shouldn't be more powerful than them.

Artist: Seems okay

Blooded: How come it suddenly is anti-stealth? It's not named "Vigilant". I would do +3 initiative, +3 spot, +3 vs fear.

Bullheaded: +3 vs taunt, +3 intimidate, +2 will saves?

Magocracy: +3 lore, +3 spellcraft, bonus language?

Flirt: +3 listen, +3 diplomacy, -2 intimidate?

Mind over body: It's too powerful. I mean, for a typical 30 INT, 12 CON wizard that's +270 HP. I mean damn. +10 HP, and +2 HP for each spellcasting or metamagic feat is an improvement. Add like +1 will save, -1 fortitude save on top?

Silverpalm: +3 appraise, +3 bluff, +3 diplomacy?

Snake Blood: +2 reflex saves, +3 vs poisons? Poison DC is fixed...

Strong Soul: Too strong again, it's giving way too good saves. +1 fortitude, +1 will is already decent, but bump that vs death to +3 and it's improved and better than greater fortitude or iron will at least.

Thug: Tempted to just get +3 on these bonuses, but it's an interesting concept. Shaken for 3 rounds? Unlimited uses. Skip demoralize opponent line. DC seems fine. Will be high, but it's more flavorful than anything (shaken is -2 AB, -2 dmg, -2 saves and -2 skills)

[metaquad4]

I like that bonus language idea for Magocracy, that is good.

Blooded and Bullheaded's (PnP) descriptions both made me think of those bonuses.

Blooded's description said quick wit and reactions. Maybe +5% Movement Speed, +3 vs Fear, +2 Reflex. I'm not particularly fond of initiative bonuses, unless they are made to do something useful in nwn2.

For Snake Blood, maybe add it in that people with the feat can use poisons safely, as Assassins and Blackguards can. That would make it +2 Reflex Saves, and the ability to use poisons safely.

For Strong Soul, maybe make it give +2 vs Death Effects, +2 vs Negative Energy, and Immunity to Sickened.

Silver Palm's description ("Your culture is based on haggling and the art of the deal."), again, made me think of 5%. Maybe make it +3 Appraise, +3 Diplomacy, 5% discount at all merchants? Your proposal is good too, though.

Flirting made me think of bluff, as it does involve some degree of bluffing! Maybe +3 Bluff, +3 Diplomacy, -3 Intimidate.

For Mind over Body, how about something like this. +2 HP per point of INT mod. +3 HP per meta-magic feat. +1 Will/-1 Fort is a good too, that fits the spirit of the feat nicely.

[chad878262]

just a quick note... giving 3/day bard songs for Artist could allow for some additional Bard Powerbuilding due to the way Song/Hymn of Requiem works. I believe to get song of Requiem it's 20/day Bard songs so if you have 13 Bard levels + 4/day (extra music) +3/day (Artist) all of the sudden you can take Requiem with 17 levels of other stuff to play with. Perhaps I am wrong about this, but I feel pretty certain I saw a post about this somewhere that said Requiem is on songs/day... Not saying it is necessarily an issue since going full Bard or Bard/Fighter is pretty OP as it is, but I am sure someone out there has a build that would benefit by stopping at Bard 13 while still gaining Song/possibly Hymn of Requiem.

[metaquad4]

I believe song of requiem requires 21 levels of bard song progression on BG. (Stormsinger, Bard, and/or Dissonant Cord). I could be wrong about that, though.

[chad878262]

http://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=6 ... em#p607395

This thread has MrM3ntalist stating it's songs/day and Theodore saying it's combination bard/dc/ss levels. Not sure which is correct, I'll maybe test it tomorrow in Jegs to find out.

[Theodore01]

It's 20 songs (not 20 bard levels), but it does not qualify at 16uses + the extra music feat.

[seawied]

I voted yes out of a knee-jerk reaction, but after reading these again, some of these are WAY too strong.

Mind over body would completely negate the need for constitution and make Gish characters waaay too strong.

Strong Soul would negate any incentive to add wisdom to frontline fighters.

[DM_Absolution]

Some change to background feats would be a good thing, but these are far to overpowered.

[metaquad4]

Edited the initial post

[grunts]

Didn't see them before the edit but they all look reasonable to me now. You can only take them at level 1 and they are up against luck of heroes and prodigy, they should be better.

[Karond]

Artist: Character gains a +2 bonus on Perform and Diplomacy checks (And 3/day uses of bardsong, capping at max bardsong capacity)

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+3 Perform, +3/day uses of bardsong (uncapped). If you do not have bardsong uses you obtain the feat Bardic Song, but cannot use it for anything other than qualifying for PRCs, unless specified by another class.

No, it should only give songs if you already have bard song, not make you a bard. And these songs should not help you qualify for anything.

Mind Over Body: Character uses Int modifier instead of Con for bonus hit points at level 1, and any metamagic or spellcasting feat grants +1 hit points.

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Your Character uses their INT Modifier instead of CON to determine bonus hit points. Any metamagic or spellcasting feats you take grant +1 fortitude saves. You will not gain any benefit from toughness, steadfast determination, or epic toughness. Your CON no longer determines your fortitude save, none of your stats will do this.
+2 HP per point of INT mod. +3 HP per meta-magic feat. +1 Will/-1 Fort

No, it's way too much HP still, especially since it can be combined with toughness. +2/int mod and +1/feat is enough.

Silver Palm: Character gains a +2 bonus on Appraise, Bluff, and Diplomacy checks

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+3 Appraise, +3 Bluff, 5% discount on all wares from NPCs.
+3 Appraise, +3 Diplomacy, 5% discount

I know this is inspired from other games, but look. NWN2 has an inbuilt system that already varies prices with +-30% called the appraise skill. Even if you could script it to give a flat bonus, it seems cheap. Let appraise do its thing.

Strong Soul: Character gains a +1 bonus to Fortitude & Will saving throws, and +1 saving throw bonus against Death magic

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WIS determines your Fortitude Save. If you have steadfast determination, add your CON to your Will Save instead of replacing.
+2 vs Death Effects, +2 vs Negative Energy, and Immunity to Sickened

There is no immunity against sickened. It's a nice thought to follow pnp, but it will not work. +2 vs negative is also useless. Whatever bonuses was given before, the new feat should also have in some form so that players that have these feats won't feel cheated on. So, retain +1 fort/+1 will, with maybe +3 vs death?

[Considerate_]

I totally agree that the background feats could do with an upgrade, as you say there's very little reason to pick most of them, so some more appeal would be awesome.

I don't have an exact proposal for numbers, but I think out QCT can work out something better than what we got now, without making the feats totally overpowered.

[Blackman D]

+2 vs neg energy isnt useless, unless by useless you meant extremely limited then yes

such a bonus would only apply to a handful of spells (the two or three neg energy spells plus harm) and against vampires

no mob i can think of actually casts neg energy spells and few use harm, and vampires of course have like one area but on that same note the bonus vs death effects is equally limited

as for the sicken, a bonus vs disease can replace it... but again also limited as nothing but undead and maybe some rats cause disease

[metaquad4]

...

Artist wouldn't make you a bard, it would only give you the capacity to take PRCs (stormsinger and dissonant cord). Those PRCs, or the Bard base class, would make you a bard (or a dissonant cord, or a stormsinger) (although, the PRCs wouldn't give you inspirations or anything, just spellcasting and their specific songs).

20+7+5+2 (assuming you spent all your feats on int as a none-pure wizard, started with a +2 race, and buffed it)=26 HP. Still+Silence+Empower+Maximize+Quicken=15 HP. Total, that is 41 HP. That doesn't seem like too much to me (and who takes still/silence anyway!). Not sure is ASoC counts its improved metamagic and regular metamagic as two seperate feats (pretty sure it takes away the regular feats when it gives you the improved metamagic).

Guild Thief grants a flat bonus at level 4(?), pretty sure the script already exists.

Yeah, pretty sure nothing grants immunity to sickness (and its a pretty obscure effect anyway, only one or two things deal it out). Maybe immunity to shaken, instead? I figure that would fit with the feat's theme still. Shaken is still a lesser effect, but, it does add a little oomph to the feat with it. +Saves vs Disease is alright too though.