Help with a Crossbow gish

[Vhaeraun Baen're]

the closest thing ive found is this: http://nwn2db.com/build/?180058


criteria is that it has to be a gnome however

is there any adjustments that you think should be made to the above build?

also, why is there Improved Rapid Shot in this build? doesnt that not do anything with Crossbows?

[Tsidkenu]

Dump Monkey grip, its completely useless for a ranged build. Take improved crossbow sniper instead. Improved rapid shot negates the -2 penalty for using rapid shot, and yes it does work with crossbows (adding rapid reload for 3 attacks/round, 4 with haste which is the maximum for a crossbow)

[Missed the note at the top: Monkey Grip = Improved Xbow Sniper!]

[Karond]

I would plan a bit more. The quiver belt, which is not too uncommon although of some value (300-350k), provides you with improved critical, rapid reload and +3 dexterity.

Similarly, most epic crossbows provide rapid reload and rapid shot, sometimes even point blank shot. You need rapid shot for manyshot, so that's fine to take as a feat, but at least skip rapid reload when there is at least two possible items that can grant that (even if its crucial to the build).

Rapid reload enables rapid shot to work with crossbows.

Do you have to be an arcane gish? the divine spell list has a bit more to offer in terms of AB and damage. Bards are typically the best spellcaster class though for crossbows.

[Rudolph]

This may be a bit late, but I had lots of fun with the following build when I last played properly. Very versatile, solo-capable, and it scaled quite nicely too. And note the many synergies.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?198054

[Thorsson]

It seems you have a pile of these builds. This one has has low CL and no Epic Precision, which is two major issues, especially as normal sneak damage doesn't Manyshot.

There are also a bunch of claims that do not stack up. You only do 3 attacks per round with a crossbow, plus 1 if you have Haste up. That means a maximum of 2 attacks from sneak. The other two attacks at -10 & -15AB are unlikely to hit, and have no chance of hitting with Manyshot.

Tenser's would be a bad idea since you can't cast with it up.

[Rudolph]

Re. Thorsson's comments on Lorna build:

The calculations were complicated and my build description seems quite convoluted in retrospect, so the odd error might have slipped in. Still, the results can't be far off as I found when I played the build.

Against non-crit-immunes, Lorna regularly scored two one-hundred+ shots from Stealth without taking much if any damage before hiding again (as you write, the next two shots don't really matter - I usually ran away instead of shooting them off).

Epic Precision would have been amazing, of course, but even without it Lorna still does 31 solid damage before Manyshot. Combined with HiPS, high stealth, and the 9 lvls of spells this means the build can still stand its ground against many sneak-immunes and make itself useful in a party.

Tenser inspired and has great synergy with this build: its low CL means that it rarely casts spells in combat anyway, and the crossbow is not affected by the fact that Tenser only raises AB (and not BAB).

The buffing is a bit of a hassle, of course, but otherwise I found this build quite effective in practice. With the right equipment (Track hat and survival gear) it can even emulate a Ranger at times.

[Rudolph]

Just realized that the CL bug is fixed now. This makes the CL issue Thorsson mentioned bigger than before and causes problems for the Lorna build I linked to. The gishy days are gone, it seems... sniff.

[Kauaiian]

Hello,

So with the CL bug fixed, is there another way to build a decent(survivable) crossbow gish?

Are these types of gishes supposed to focus on dex or int?

What is the desired AB?

[Thorsson]

Hello,

So with the CL bug fixed, is there another way to build a decent(survivable) crossbow gish?

Are these types of gishes supposed to focus on dex or int?

What is the desired AB?

When you say Gish I presume you mean Wizard (or Sorceror), because Bards make great crossbowers.

You're going to have two major problems:

1. Without the Bardic boosts from Inspirations your AB is going to struggle; GMW doesn't work with ranged weapons.

2. You'll struggle to fit all the Feats in, ending up taking several normal Feats in Epic. This will also make you a very slow starter.

Unless you HiPS the AB needs to be in the mid 40s minimum as you want to Manyshot, which has an 8 AB Penalty. Getting HiPS in here is not impossible - here's my stab at it:
http://nwn2db.com/build/?244902
That's playable - full caster with CL27 and the buffed AB should be enough for the 2 attacks from HiPS to hit.

[Kauaiian]

Hello,

So with the CL bug fixed, is there another way to build a decent(survivable) crossbow gish?

Are these types of gishes supposed to focus on dex or int?

What is the desired AB?

When you say Gish I presume you mean Wizard (or Sorceror), because Bards make great crossbowers.

You're going to have two major problems:

1. Without the Bardic boosts from Inspirations your AB is going to struggle; GMW doesn't work with ranged weapons.

2. You'll struggle to fit all the Feats in, ending up taking several normal Feats in Epic. This will also make you a very slow starter.

Unless you HiPS the AB needs to be in the mid 40s minimum as you want to Manyshot, which has an 8 AB Penalty. Getting HiPS in here is not impossible - here's my stab at it:
http://nwn2db.com/build/?244902
That's playable - full caster with CL27 and the buffed AB should be enough for the 2 attacks from HiPS to hit.

I rather like it, Thorsson, thank you! I was looking into a svirfneblin as a race. Will the states suffer much because of it?

[Thorsson]

I rather like it, Thorsson, thank you! I was looking into a svirfneblin as a race. Will the states suffer much because of it?

Well you'll get less Int, but 18 isn't necessary and you will have the extra AB/AC due to small race. You can still use a Heavy Xbow; what I don't know is the availability of gear in the UD - my build presumed the use of Rapid Reload from either Xbow or the "Quiver" (belt).

[Kauaiian]

I rather like it, Thorsson, thank you! I was looking into a svirfneblin as a race. Will the states suffer much because of it?

Well you'll get less Int, but 18 isn't necessary and you will have the extra AB/AC due to small race. You can still use a Heavy Xbow; what I don't know is the availability of gear in the UD - my build presumed the use of Rapid Reload from either Xbow or the "Quiver" (belt).

Understood, thanks!