Communicating with someone that is shapedchanged.

[OXHawkXO]

When one comes across a charter that is shapechange, How would you communicate with it. Does it understand common, is there a different language for the different forms? (Frost Giant, Fire Giant, Iron Golem, Horned Devil and Nightwalker) Can they speak common? How would they communicate with people?

[Hoihe]

If it's a humanoid shape (including giants and devils, maybe illithid), or dragon shape:

Can speak all languages they know, maybe with an accent, can understand all languages they know

If it's an animal shape:

Can NOT speak common, can understand all languages they know

If it's an elemental form:

Can speak the elemental's language if the character knows it, can understand all languages they know

If it's treant form:

Can speak treant if they speak it, can understand all languages they know

Dunno about iron golem shape and nightwalker.

[Deathgrowl]

Iron golem has no anatomy for producing sounds other than CLANG CLANG CLANG.

Nightwalker can speak. Probably sounds disembodied and eerie.

[Considerate_]

Just to make sure I understand you correctly, you want to know how your character communicates with someone else who has shapechanged?

A shapechanged characters mentally faculties (intelligence, wisdon and even charisma) remains unchanged even when shapechanged. As such they understand both verbal communication and gesticulations as if he would in his normal shape... unless he has taken the form of something that's blind or deaf.


Their own response would be much more limited depending on the shape they've taken according to Forgotten Realms - I'm unaware if our server have any rules pertaining to this subject though, so this is my own opinion I'm stating.

All of the shapes below have their own natural languages (Animal, treant, etc), all I'm answering is if they'd be retain the ability to speak the languages the original shape had.

The Shapechange spell:

Hidden: show

[th]The shapechange spell:[/th] [tr][/tr] [th]Frost giant[/th] [th]retains the ability to speak[/th] [tr][/tr] [th]Fire giant[/th] [th]retains the ability to speak[/th] [tr][/tr] [th]Horned devil[/th] [th]retains the ability to speak[/th] [tr][/tr] [th]Nightwalker[/th] [th]retains the ability to speak[/th] [tr][/tr] [th]Iron golem[/th] [th]can't speak[/th] [tr][/tr]

The Polymorph spell:

Hidden: show

[th]Polymorph:[/th] [tr][/tr] [th]Blade spider[/th] [th]can't speak[/th][tr][/tr] [th]Troll[/th] [th]retains the ability to speak[/th][tr][/tr] [th]Umberhulk[/th] [th]can't speak[/th][tr][/tr] [th]Gargoyle[/th] [th]retains the ability to speak[/th][tr][/tr] [th]Mind flayer[/th] [th]retains the ability to speak[/th]

The Wild Shape ability:

Hidden: show

[th]Wild Shape:[/th] [tr][/tr] [th]Badger[/th] [th]can't speak[/th][tr][/tr] [th]Bear[/th] [th]can't speak[/th][tr][/tr] [th]Boar[/th] [th]can't speak[/th][tr][/tr] [th]Wolf[/th] [th]can't speak[/th][tr][/tr] [th]Dire Badger[/th] [th]can't speak[/th][tr][/tr] [th]Dire Bear[/th] [th]can't speak[/th][tr][/tr] [th]Dire Boar[/th] [th]can't speak[/th][tr][/tr] [th]Dire Wolf[/th] [th]can't speak[/th][tr][/tr] [th]Treant[/th] [th]can't speak[/th][tr][/tr] [th]Shambling Mound[/th] [th]can't speak[/th][tr][/tr] [th]Celestial Leopard[/th] [th]can't speak[/th][tr][/tr] [th]Phase Spider[/th] [th]can't speak[/th][tr][/tr] [th]Winter Wolf[/th] [th]retains the ability to speak[/th][tr][/tr] [th]Dragon[/th] [th]retains the ability to speak[/th][tr][/tr]

PS: yes, I wanted to try out tables just because I could

[Deathgrowl]

Actually, Considerate, the Winter Wolf can speak. (Source: Monster Manual, page 256)

[kleomenes]

Actually, Considerate, the Winter Wolf can speak. (Source: Monster Manual, page 256)

Considerate got some lore wrong.....?

After....all these years of her being 100% correct....finally....a moment of....celebration! Finally hope of winning a lore argument in the future!

But then I realise my warm glow of smug victory can only be by proxy because I was not the one who pointed it out.

///One day Considerate, one day! Victory will be mine! ///

[Boddynock]

I never understood why elementals were limited to speaking their own language. The monster manual says they can, by default, speak their language, not that they are limited to it. A caster in elemental form would also have the elemental's ability to speak, and could reasonably use it to speak any language the caster knows, it may sound a bit funny, but there is nothing to my knowledge that expressly forbids it.

[Considerate_]

Actually, Considerate, the Winter Wolf can speak. (Source: Monster Manual, page 256)

Can't argue with source books - thank you for pointing it out. I've fixed it in my tables

Tbh., I never did pay much attention to which monsters had what language - so if anyone knows of any other mistake in the above list, feel free to mention it!


@Kleomenes - you have noooo idea how often I've been wrong in our conversations. The thing just is that you haven't checked up on it and take my knowledge at face value!


@Boddynock, to the best of my knowledge, there's nothing in the rules on this server preventing wild shaped druids from speaking. So the this is just my opinion

However... Languages is a very complex thing even in our world, amongst us humans. If you've heard Arabic, Cantonese, Japanese or Finnish, you'd realise just how many diverse vocal cords are in use. Perhaps the most well known example of this, is how Asian struggle with the pronunciation of R's and L's. And I'm quite certain those of us using the Latin alphabet would be at an absolute loss when presented with a Cyrillic or Korean alphabet.

Now we need to compare this to a world where the races are so biologically different that there's almost no similarity at all. One could assume that if an Earth element has the ability to pronounce a set of syllables for one language, then it can pronounce all syllables required for all types of languages.

I'm not a linguist or expect on the area, but I just disagree with that assumption

[Nyeleni]

If it's a humanoid shape (including giants and devils, maybe illithid), or dragon shape:

Can speak all languages they know, maybe with an accent, can understand all languages they know

If it's an animal shape:

Can NOT speak common, can understand all languages they know

If it's an elemental form:

Can speak the elemental's language if the character knows it, can understand all languages they know

If it's treant form:

Can speak treant if they speak it, can understand all languages they know

Dunno about iron golem shape and nightwalker.

Treant should be able to speak any language the shapeshifter speaks, as well any elemental forms.

It would be stupid to limit their freedom of speech just because the original being only speaks their language. As long as they are able to speak any language they should be able to speak the languages they know.

For instance my druid doesn't know any elemental language and never spoke in those forms because a certain somebody pointed out that they wouldn't speak any other language. But thinking about it, it makes no sense. On the other hand in treant form she just spoke like in the LotR books described: very slow but common.

Even if a dnd tabletop ruling exists, I think common sense prevails.

[Boddynock]

@Considerate:

Don't fall into the trap of using too much real world logic and applying it to Forgotten Realms. While what you say makes sense on the surface, dragons and humans (and elves, and orcs, and dwarves, and countless other things)are capable of interbreeding, which suggests they are actually the same species by real world standards of biology...

[LISA100595]

Do we use the information provided in the D20srd.org?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/treant.htm

[Nyeleni]

But that is the real treant. Not a shapeshifted druid into treant. It is quite different imo.

[metaquad4]

Not really. When a druid shapeshifts into a treant, they do take on all physical qualities (and abilities) of their form.

[Nyeleni]

Sure. But they still keep intelligence, charisma and wisdom, do they not? Thus their cognitive faculties are different than that of a "normal" treant. That is the matter, not the physical ones.

[metaquad4]

From the player handbook:

"A druid loses their ability to speak while in animal form because they are limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make. . .at 12th level, a druid becomes able to use wild shape to change into a plant creature. . .with the same restrictions as for animal forms." (p. 37)"

Physical is a matter in D&D, as certain creatures are in-cable of speaking certain languages. For the purposes of wildshape, you can only speak as the creature is normally able to speak, according to the feat text.

That being said. . .

"Treants speak [treant], plus Common and Sylvan. Most also can manage a smattering of just about all other humanoid tongues—at least enough to say "Get away from my trees!" "