Why on earth would anyone ever use a light hammer or club?

[seawied]

Light Hammer stats:
Damage: 1d4
Damage Type: Bludgeoning
Critical Range: 20
Critical Multiplier: x2
Proficiency Required: Martial
Size: Small


Club Stats:
Damage: 1d6
Damage Type: Bludgeoning
Critical Range: 20
Critical Multiplier: x2
Proficiency Required: Simple
Size: Medium


Mace Stats:
Damage: 1d6
Damage Type: Bludgeoning
Critical Range: 20
Critical Multiplier: x2
Proficiency Required: Simple
Size: Small

The mace requires a more common proficiency, deals more damage, has the same critical threat range, is the same size, and has the same multiplier as the light hammer. A club is a carbon copy of the mace, except it is medium in size as opposed to small.

I suggest a change to these.

Light Hammer suggested stats:
Damage: 1d4
Damage Type: Bludgeoning
Critical Range: 20
Critical Multiplier: x3
Proficiency Required: Simple
Size: Small


Club Suggested Stats:
Damage: 1d6
Damage Type: Bludgeoning
Critical Range: 20
Critical Multiplier: x3
Proficiency Required: Simple
Size: Medium

These changes would encourage more weapon diversity and give these forgotten weapons some love.

[Maecius]

I wouldn't be opposed if the QC vets it and feels it's appropriate. We would be deviating a little bit from the source, but I suppose you could make a case that we've been very gradually doing that for years.

I had a character who used a light hammer. He was an artificer, and it was just his work hammer. It was mostly an RP convention, but it was also uncommonly good at killing bandits and kobolds. I swear I got more critical hits with it than with any other weapon I've used (and I'm usually fond of rapiers), but I probably imagined it.

[NCrawler]

I use a club. It's my mobile health kit. Saves me a ton of gold on heal kits when I am in the troll claws. ((Will of the Lost, EB+1, Vamp Regen+3))

[The Whistler]

Why would anyone use a half plate, scale mail or the myriad other supbar armor types for that matter ? Here's hoping that the devs take a look at those too.

An easy and painless fix for 'weak' weapons would be to make more of them available at merchants with exotic or stronger than average enchantments; vampiric regen comes to mind. Perhaps even feats such as feint. I think that's a good compromise which doesn't mess with the weapons' base stats.

[Karond]

Why would anyone use a half plate, scale mail or the myriad other supbar armor types for that matter ? Here's hoping that the devs take a look at those too.

An easy and painless fix for 'weak' weapons would be to make more of them available at merchants with exotic or stronger than average enchantments; vampiric regen comes to mind. Perhaps even feats such as feint. I think that's a good compromise which doesn't mess with the weapons' base stats.

This is from QC, where we've had a discussion on improving armors since July 2015. It's all about automatically upgrading all the armors in the game. Only posting my own quotes, but this was my suggestion if we need to change the base armors instead of another solution. I'm personally more leaning towards a shop/loot system solution, but it is an alternative. Still no decision though, and this was the final suggestion:

Halfplate 7/0 becomes 8/0
Hide armor 3/4 becomes 3/5
Chain mail 5/2 becomes 6/2
Splint mail 6/0 becomes 7/1
Banded Mail 6/1 becomes 7/1 (I would rather it give the same as splint, another heavy armor, than the same as a medium armor: chain mail)
Scale Mail 4/3 becomes 5/3 (medium, so identical to breastplate)

For weapons, we haven't discussed changing base statistics. There, it is all about shops or loot items, allowing mechanically inferior weapons slightly better enchantments. Plus, there is a reason why light hammer gets one of these belts and not the other weapons in one of the upcoming shops (in addition to a few epic light hammers being sold):

Girdle of Combat Belt: Bonus feat: Improved Critical Light Hammer, Weapon Focus Light Hammer, Weapon Specialization Light Hammer

[Storm Munin]

Because any player equiping his/her toon with a light hammer and a hide armor etc might be considered amazingly awesome in comparison to the horde of warhammer, scythe, butterknife and whatnot else critical wielding crowd in shiny mithral or fancy robes?

As for the club it does come with an amazing frying pan mod (and a few fun others) while not uncommonly dropping with +1 vampiric regeneration.
Most handy.
Sick em compadres! *swing the trusty pan menacingly then yelps as scolding hot grease run down his arms*


Sad to hear QC going down that road but I guess it had to happen some day.

Then again that is just one perspective on it.
Perhaps the best solution would be to give all weapon and armor the same core game stats.
Play what you want and do not get punished for making different to difficult choices.


Glad different weapons like the light hammer seem to get some loving in the future even if I do not foresee myself using one.

/M

Edit:
Thats the spirit! *comment on picture in post below*

[Aspect of Sorrow]

Sick em compadres! *swing the trusty pan menacingly then yelps as scolding hot grease run down his arms*

[Charraj]

Light hammers can be used with Weapon Finesse, right? For a Dex-based character, light hammers are optimal for fighting undead, etc.

[Nyeleni]

The mace is finessable as well.

[R0ninknight]

There's multiple reasons why I don't like to see items that give feats but this is the most relevant right now:

Say Billy makes this great 'Light Hammer Master' build for RP reasons- something similar as mentioned above, perhaps. Billy plays his character to level 12, creates great storylines with a dozen different organizations, and takes the feats the belt gets not knowing the belt exists and because taking those feats makes perfect sense. Then, one day, Billy discovers the belt in the shop. Sure, Billy now has a free belt slot because he doesn't need the belt but Billy would much, much rather have a belt and free up the feat slots but wait- its the responsibility of each player to build up their characters properly; DMs won't take away a few levels. Honestly though, Billy should mule the belt and find a way to start over despite the xp costs- hope it doesn't break RP or immersion too much! I hope Billy is a very patient person! I hope Billy has a lot of alts!

I much endorse the idea of creating balancing changes to the core of items and such than using loot tables to balance things and I always think creating items that give feats is a bad idea for a myriad of reasons. I accept that this isn't the case in past development, though, of course.

I like the original suggestion. Diversity is not as important as balance but it is important. I'd have the mace have the better multiplier though because in RL designed maces are better for that than clubs are and try to give clubs a different niche. A club isn't as good at massive critical blows as a mace is in real life.

The armor suggestion seems good, too.... then again I'd overhaul a heck of a lot when it comes to DnD 3.5's very broken armor system. My favorite variant rule in the whole game is the 'Armor as DR' variant, for example. I'm not pushing for that particular rule but the principles of it might be worth some thought.

Related Tangent: While we're at it could mithril full plate become less ridiculous to get (from what I'm told)? You can plan around it in tabletop since its costs and availability are balanced in the DM's Guide but I'm told that's not a good expectation here.

Related Tangent: If there were weaponized frying pans in the game.... I'd carry a couple on at least one character.

[Atlas]

-

[Maecius]

DMs won't take away a few levels.

[...]

Related Tangent: While we're at it could mithril full plate become less ridiculous to get (from what I'm told)? You can plan around it in tabletop since its costs and availability are balanced in the DM's Guide but I'm told that's not a good expectation here.

Related Tangent: If there were weaponized frying pans in the game.... I'd carry a couple on at least one character.

Quick notes! The DMs are authorized to take levels if you make a build mistake. Even multiple levels. They're just not authorized to give the levels back after they take them. (They can level drop you, but they can't rebuild you.)

I think QC is reviewing the mithral armor situation.

There is a weaponized frying pan. It's one of the appearance options for the "club" base item. There's also a weaponized rolling pin (also club). Someone should create a battle chef!

[R0ninknight]

I just may create a battle chef whose main goal in life is to cook and taste at least one of every animal species on the planet! That'd be.... chaotic evil, I think, trying to find exotic demihuman subraces to cook and all. lol

Of course there are plenty of other concepts that would work, too.... and I'm sure less psychopathic ones....

Anyway! Blunt weapons can use some love but I was just thinking: isn't bludgeoning the most likely form of physical damage to bypass damage reduction in DnD in general? That might explain the warmace's stats. In tabletop I really liked the ability to use it one handed with a penalty to AC if one wished to take that deal. That sort of deal might be a way to play with some bludgeon weapon stats, too.

[chad878262]

It also should be noted that at least one of the feats Rasael designed that's in the public JEGS testing module is designed for blunt weapons power attacking... War Mace being the only two hander blunt weapon will make it useful should a player be interested in that new feat. I will go find it and post it here.

[chad878262]

Here ya go Atlas... Not earth shattering, and not working exactly in JEGS, but I thought it a neat idea.

-Brutal Strike

Type of Feat: General, Fighter
Prerequisite: Power Attack, Strength 13, Base attack bonus +6
Use: Selected.

If you use your Power Attack feat to increase your damage with a bludgeoning weapon, you can attempt a brutal strike. You must declare your intention before making your attack. If the attack hits and your opponent takes damage, he must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + your extra damage from the Power Attack feat on the attack) or be sickened for 1 round. You can use this feat once per round during your attack action. Special: This feat cannot be used against a creature that is not subject to extra damage from critical hits. A fighter can select Brutal Strike as one of his fighter bonus feats.