Alignments and mental disorders

[The Last Question]

I have zero professional knowledge on mental health, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but how should we represent the alignment of a character with double/multiple personalities? Are psychopath characters inherently Evil (assuming there is such a thing as a psychopath who fights against their urge of killing)?

[Nyeleni]

Psychopathy as such isn't a label used by psychologists even so, it doesn't mean they have to be violent. It is just easier to be. The problem being that empathy isn't in their vocabulary.

According to wiki:

Triarchic model[edit]
The triarchic model, formulated by Christopher J. Patrick et al., suggests that different conceptions of psychopathy emphasize three observable characteristics to varying degrees. SNIP

Boldness. Low fear including stress-tolerance, toleration of unfamiliarity and danger, and high self-confidence and social assertiveness. SNIP

Disinhibition. Poor impulse control including problems with planning and foresight, lacking affect and urge control, demand for immediate gratification, and poor behavioral restraints. SNIP

Meanness. Lacking empathy and close attachments with others, disdain of close attachments, use of cruelty to gain empowerment, exploitative tendencies, defiance of authority, and destructive excitement seeking. SNIP

If we want to use (imo idiotic model of alignments) chaotic neutral and chaotic evil would come to mind. But even good alignment is possible as long as it is directed against authority, which could be a tyranny for instance.

[Uther3867]

i'm glad someone brought this up i'm interested to see the opinions

[Tsidkenu]

This kind of rp is well suited to the spirit shaman class. I think the central personality should be on the alignment, and the others exhibit behaviours divergent from the centre.

[R0ninknight]

This is a tough one because the alignment system is such a limited mechanic and situations such as this show its weaknesses.
Alignment is based objectively on actions taken rather than subjectively according to intent, so you really end up with two options:

1) The alignment changes to match the current dominant personality; the one 'in control'. When the personality switches the alignment immediately switches, too. I'm sure most can imagine how difficult this would be because a DM would have to switch your character's alignment every time the dominant personality changes.

2) An 'average' of the alignments in question occurs. If one personality is Lawful Good and the other Chaotic Evil then the character is True Neutral. In fact, I think this is one of the few good uses of the True Neutral alignment option. If one personality is Chaotic Good and the other Chaotic Evil then you end up with Chaotic Neutral as the actions of the two keep balancing each other out on the Good-Evil axis over time. If there are more than two personalities you average them all out.

I'm guessing that the DMs are going to rule for #2 due to the work-intensive dependence option 1 requires out of DMs. You'd basically have to have DMs at you beck and call in order to have consistent RP with the character for that option unless the personality change happens so rarely that in 90+% of all interactions with the character it would be a non-issue. The -instant- alignment changes due to personality change then things like Smite Evil would work or not work with option #1.

That said, please be careful as a player. Its definitely fair game as far as a character concept goes but please remember how many real lives things like this touch and often in very emotional ways. A full one percent of Americans, for example, have a treatable level of bipolar disorder and four out of five Americans have -something- treatable mentally (for most its just not severe enough to affect their lives much). If you have no experience in real life with mental illness in terms of everyone you've ever met you seriously, seriously lucked out in life. Most likely you just don't know who has what. This also goes for the people you play with and their friends/families/associates- you don't know who is dealing with what in their lives. So: its cool that you're willing to tackle it creatively in fiction but please remember its can be a nerve, too, and should be RP'd with care.
It is also going to be difficult to portray any sort of psychopath in a believable way and still respect the PG-13 rating. A psychopath (if that's the mental state you go with), by definition, wouldn't care about the taboos of society ICly or the rules of the server OOCly when it comes to empathy so good luck balancing that all out in a way that seems natural and believable.
Good luck, oh brave one!

[The Last Question]

Oh wow!
Thanks a lot for the help, folks.

(imo idiotic model of alignments)

YES. And yes. I don't like how black-and-white alignments are portrayed in D&D. Still, I'm glad our setting provides a small, yet interesting gray area for us to play with.

2) An 'average' of the alignments in question occurs. If one personality is Lawful Good and the other Chaotic Evil then the character is True Neutral. In fact, I think this is one of the few good uses of the True Neutral alignment option. If one personality is Chaotic Good and the other Chaotic Evil then you end up with Chaotic Neutral as the actions of the two keep balancing each other out on the Good-Evil axis over time. If there are more than two personalities you average them all out.

Completely agree with that one. As a matter of fact, this is indeed a great use of a True Neutral alignment.

Since I think #1 is a bit difficult to represent with the game's mechanics, I believe #2 is our best choice/explanation so far.

So: its cool that you're willing to tackle it creatively in fiction but please remember its can be a nerve, too, and should be RP'd with care.

Noted. I've RPed cruel villains in the past in 18+ settings and that alone was a bit disturbing (but really interesting from a storytelling perspective), I imagine playing a character with severe mental disorders can be even more challenging. I'll be looking forward to get some feedback after that character gets created.

[Grimcheese]

As a player who play(s/ed) a character with mental issues herself:

• Do your research. Asking here is a good start, though I would highly recommend taking it a step further if you want to roleplay the concept well. Read up on the disorder(s) you have in mind, look up personal accounts of people with the disorders, and read stories depicting the same in proper detail. You want to be able to fathom the mindset that a character with mental illness has regarding circumstances that the "neurotypical" (to borrow a term) takes for granted, so that you are able to write it well, and with respect for the people who have these disorders in real life. A writing schtick often parroted is "write what you know", and for good reason.
• Always be open for communication. Just because your character is messed up doesn't mean you can't keep things cordial as players. It applies to the playerbase as a whole, but is especially important when you are deliberately going for the angle of mental illness.
• Be willing to make concessions. Sometimes adhering 100% to the concept can result in misery no matter what you do to soften the blows. You may need to ease up a little at times to ensure that all parties are still comfortable being around your character, if not having fun. It's all well and good to promote awareness of mental illness by roleplaying it well, but you still need to be able to enjoy your time on the server, too.

[R0ninknight]

Grimcheese, your message left me searching for a 'like' button at the bottom of the post!

I'm glad someone brought this up.

Yeah, what I hearby label 'Option #1' would be pretty fun in a tabletop environment to try out but I think this medium wouldn't suit it well. By contrast, I'd be glad to see someone use the True Neutral alignment in a creative way like this instead of the usual 'whatever; I don't care' interpretation. Exciting stuff!

[The Last Question]

Yep. I second what R0ninknight said about your message, Grimcheese. Thanks for that.

Haven't started this character yet, but I surely feel what you mean by:

Sometimes adhering 100% to the concept can result in misery no matter what you do to soften the blows.

Moreover, I appreciate everyone's thoughts on the matter. A lot!