Favored Soul character conceptualisation

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Clockwork
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Favored Soul character conceptualisation

Unread post by Clockwork »

I've been working on a character concept for a Favored Soul, and thought I'd reach out to the community to help refine it. First off, I would prefer to keep this character human where possible (I mislike racial abilities, penalties and bonuses, like having lots of feats to impart flavour, and have difficulty identifying with non-humans).

What drew me to this concept and has formed the basis of it, is this line from the NWN2 description:
Despite these powers, favored souls are often hindered by a sense of inescapable destiny that surrounds their births. They didn't choose their paths and may not want anything to do with their religion. In this way, the powers of a favored soul can be a burden rather than a blessing.
I always like to have a bit of philosophy behind my characters, with their journey underpinned & driven by some form of unresolved conflict, and the exploration of free will would seem to be a natural fit. Here is a character who has been granted great power, for reasons unknown to them and towards an unspecified goal. Not only is that an awful lot of responsibility for someone to bare, it's also a burden that's been assigned by a Diety that they might not necessarily agree with. What effect would that have on someone's mind?

The character as I see it would struggle with self-doubt and uncertainty, scrutinising every decision that they make. They might often be paralysed by indecision. Are their actions truly their own? Have they made the right choice, or merely acted in a way that they unconsciously associate with their Deity?

Rather than embrace their calling, would they try to forge their own path? To what extent would they be successful, or would they be able to ultimately reconcile their doubts with their nature? These are the questions that I would like to explore.

The stumbling block comes with selecting the deity in question. To serve the character best, I feel that a deity would work who has some objectionable quality that isn't immediately apparent - so avoiding the obvious Good and Evil ones (ground too often covered). Kelemvor, for instance, would have been ideal - for reasons partially explored by Kaelyn the Dove in Mask of the Betrayer, but also for his conceptualisation of morbidity and impartiality. As he's not available in this setting, I've been going back and forth between Helm and Lathander.

Helm works for reasons of impartiality. Duty over morality would help fuel the conflict between free will and predestination. How far does Helm's protection extend? Yes, saving people from Orcs is fairly obvious - but what if those people are Evil themselves, or go onto perform great evils? Putting aside immediate dangers, what about social ills and injustices? How does one protect somebody from themselves? Is there a line between protection and aggression, and where does it lie? Also, swords are cool.

Lathander is interesting because his dogma seems to have quite a bit of fertile ground for a FS lik this to explore. A character selected before birth to serve a God that expects their obedience in return for divine power might find themselves at odds with that God's focus on renewal. What room do they have to embrace rebirth when their fate is predestined (or, at the very least, tied to Lathander's influences)? How do they become a symbol of hope and inspiration, when they are barely able to inspire themselves?

Either option, I feel, would serve the concept well - but I would like to throw this open to for comment in case there's something I'm missing or have overlooked, or if there's a more suitable option within the FR pantheon. This would be my first venture into playing a divine character in D&D so I am keen for feedback on what would work from those who are more familiar with the Deities that I am.
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thids
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Re: Favored Soul character conceptualisation

Unread post by thids »

You need to keep in mind that while a Favored Soul may willfully want to stray away from its patron, they can never actually do it. They are basically the embodiment of their gods pantheon. So for an example, while a Favored Soul of Lathander might have doubts, they ARE the symbol of hope and inspiration simply by being a Favored Soul of Lathander.

That said, another deity that I would suggest for a RP concept like this would be Beshaba. A CN FS of Beshaba who doesn't want to be what they are, yet their mere presence brings misfortune to others.
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Clockwork
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Re: Favored Soul character conceptualisation

Unread post by Clockwork »

Thids wrote:You need to keep in mind that while a Favored Soul may willfully want to stray away from its patron, they can never actually do it. They are basically the embodiment of their gods pantheon. So for an example, while a Favored Soul of Lathander might have doubts, they ARE the symbol of hope and inspiration simply by being a Favored Soul of Lathander
Well, this is what I'm curious about. How would this actually play out? Is he naturally inspiring, or does he have to work at it? What if he screws up? CAN he screw up?

For instance, a Cleric of Lathander knows what he is. He has chosen to worship Lathander, and his devotion has been rewarded. A FS has no such direction: at most, he has what the faithful of Lathander tell him to do, and his own (divine) intuition. If they are ever in conflict, which is right?

I'm just throwing out ideas here to see if anything sticks.
chad878262
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Re: Favored Soul character conceptualisation

Unread post by chad878262 »

Clockwork wrote:
Thids wrote:You need to keep in mind that while a Favored Soul may willfully want to stray away from its patron, they can never actually do it. They are basically the embodiment of their gods pantheon. So for an example, while a Favored Soul of Lathander might have doubts, they ARE the symbol of hope and inspiration simply by being a Favored Soul of Lathander
Well, this is what I'm curious about. How would this actually play out? Is he naturally inspiring, or does he have to work at it? What if he screws up? CAN he screw up?

For instance, a Cleric of Lathander knows what he is. He has chosen to worship Lathander, and his devotion has been rewarded. A FS has no such direction: at most, he has what the faithful of Lathander tell him to do, and his own (divine) intuition. If they are ever in conflict, which is right?

I'm just throwing out ideas here to see if anything sticks.

If you are interested in exploring Hoar I know a couple of other Favored Souls that may be kindred spirits and offer some pretty neat RP for all involved. I am thinking that the idea might be easier to pull off than Lathander since it might be something where inherently your PC perhaps wants nothing to do with Lawful retribution, protecting those who cannot get vengeance themselves, or poetic justice. Perhaps this individual doesn't even care for poetry or irony, but somehow, someway, s/he is always getting involved in the problems of others and becomes more interested in punishing the guilty rather than righting any wrongs...Maybe it presents itself as an uncontrollable temper when someone gets away with wrong doing? Driving the PC (perhaps not even knowing it is Hoar doing it) to go after the wrong doer...

Just an idea, if you are interested, the Hunters of Vengeance are a very RP oriented guild that is trying to build itself up, feel free to ask quesions if you have them and whatever you decide, good luck and have fun!

If you are interested just send a PM to either "Hunters of Vengeance" guild, MedalofValor or Calodan (or of course me, but I don't play a favored soul or a Hoarite) :D
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Clockwork
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Re: Favored Soul character conceptualisation

Unread post by Clockwork »

Oh, that might work quite well. The character could be compelled to seek vengeance and feel satisfaction when it is carried out, with each time it becomes more and more like an addiction.
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Calodan
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Re: Favored Soul character conceptualisation

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Well I know us in the Hunters of Vengeance would welcome any Favored RP and many others as well. We are a Lawful Neutral guild that can adapt and cater to many RP styles. Any are welcome to come RP with us!
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"... it sounds like a terrible idea, but look at that smile."
"And he just sounds so confident ... he is a favored soul."
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chad878262
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Re: Favored Soul character conceptualisation

Unread post by chad878262 »

I would say as a favored soul it would depend on the individual, but why would Hoar choose as his favored someone who would not lawfully submit themselves if they have wronged another? Wouldn't his dogma demand his clergy then bring that individual to justice for the wronged?

Oh if only killington was still around, this would be a debate for him! Good question chambo!
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Calodan
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Re: Favored Soul character conceptualisation

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If a favored soul of Hoar commits injury or wrong on another character, do they have to willfully submit to the other character's vengeance?
Interesting question and the answer is no! Here is why. Those of Hoar particularly the clerics and favored would pray for those seeking vengeance OR FOR THOSE IN WHICH VENGEANCE IS SOUGHT ON THEM!!! So really as a favored if you wronged someone then you would pray to Hoar for forgiveness and that he would not let them visit vengeance upon you same goes for others who may have vengeance sought on them. Of course really it is just who comes to us first and pays the coin to keep them safe or visit vengeance on those that wronged them after we seek council from Hoar of course!
Kory Sentinel
"We should take the army head on!"

"... it sounds like a terrible idea, but look at that smile."
"And he just sounds so confident ... he is a favored soul."
"Even if we don't survive, he will, and isn't that what matters?" -Red Lancer
Clockwork
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Re: Favored Soul character conceptualisation

Unread post by Clockwork »

Wait, I'm confused. I thought that Hoar encourages vengeance (as the god of revenge). Why would his followers pray that the wronged party chooses contrition or forgiveness instead?
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thids
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Re: Favored Soul character conceptualisation

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chambordini wrote: If a favored soul of Hoar commits injury or wrong on another character, do they have to willfully submit to the other character's vengeance?
Dogma: Hoar charges his clergy to uphold true and fitting justice and to maintain the spirit of the law, not the letter of the law. Fitting recompense will always accrue for one's actions. Violence will meet violence and evil pay back evil, but good will also come to those who do good. One must be careful to walk the line of Hoar's teachings, to seek retribution, but to fall not into pursuing evil acts for evil's sake, for that way is seductive and leads only to one's downfall. Vengeance must be sought for all injustices, and all punishments must fit the crime. Revenge is sweetest when it is sharpened with irony. All attacks must be avenged. Those who do not respond to attacks against their person or that which they hold dead only invite future attacks.
Yes, very much so. In fact I would say that they must bring vengeance upon themselves if the person they have wronged asks them to do it! I think you have just broken the idea of Favored Souls in Forgotten Realms with that question :lol:

Clockwork wrote:Wait, I'm confused. I thought that Hoar encourages vengeance (as the god of revenge). Why would his followers pray that the wronged party chooses contrition or forgiveness instead?
You thought correctly, I don't know where Calodan is getting that from.
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Calodan
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Re: Favored Soul character conceptualisation

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You thought correctly, I don't know where Calodan is getting that from.
Those in service of Hoar mainly the clergy would in fact not only pray for vengeance for those they are paid coin to do so for but also those who would have vengeance sought upon them. I wish I could quote where I got this off the top of my head but sadly a little TBI often clouds the memory. Let me dig that up for you. I was actually recently looking up things on Hoar and that was where I got it because I was doing lore research on holy days according to Hoarites that they might celebrate. Mostly to make sure that a certain bit of RP the HOV has been working on was in step with server lore and such. Sorry for not having the actual quote I was interpreting..... :oops:
Kory Sentinel
"We should take the army head on!"

"... it sounds like a terrible idea, but look at that smile."
"And he just sounds so confident ... he is a favored soul."
"Even if we don't survive, he will, and isn't that what matters?" -Red Lancer
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thids
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Re: Favored Soul character conceptualisation

Unread post by thids »

I haven't read much about Hoar aside from the entries on him in the 2nd and 3rd edition sourcebooks focusing on gods in FR, so I may be wrong. But even so, if it is worded like that it would mean that the clerics simply pray for the souls of those upon whom the vengeance is being sought after, it doesn't mean that they are "forgiven". The vengeance is still to be brought about (appropriate vengeance, in accord with Hoar's dogma), doing otherwise would be against Hoar's dogma.
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RagingPeace
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Re: Favored Soul character conceptualisation

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Calodan wrote:
You thought correctly, I don't know where Calodan is getting that from.
Those in service of Hoar mainly the clergy would in fact not only pray for vengeance for those they are paid coin to do so for but also those who would have vengeance sought upon them. I wish I could quote where I got this off the top of my head but sadly a little TBI often clouds the memory. Let me dig that up for you. I was actually recently looking up things on Hoar and that was where I got it because I was doing lore research on holy days according to Hoarites that they might celebrate. Mostly to make sure that a certain bit of RP the HOV has been working on was in step with server lore and such. Sorry for not having the actual quote I was interpreting..... :oops:
In addition, Hoar's clergy seek out victims of injustice, hear their stories, evaluate the veracity of their accounts, and track down the perpetrators in order to inflict a fitting punishment meted out. Actions of this type have caused most town watches and Tyrists to brand priests of the Doombringer as vigilantes and raised the stature of the priesthood to that of champion of the downtroddon and underdogs in the eyes of the common folk.
Is this what you have in mind?

http://www.nj-pbem.com/data/Gods/humangods/Hoar.htm
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Calodan
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Re: Favored Soul character conceptualisation

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Day-to-Day Activities: There are few actual temples of Hoar in the western Realms. Instead the Doombringer's priesthood is composed primarily of itinerant wanderers who travel from town to town agreeing to pray for Hoar's intercession on behalf of one who seeks or fears vengeance for some attack in exchange for a small fee. Charlatans masquerading as members of Hoar's clergy or priests who neglect the prayers they have promised to make receive a fitting punishment by Hoar's hand.

In addition, Hoar's clergy seek out victims of injustice, hear their stories, evaluate the veracity of their accounts, and track down the perpetrators in order to inflict a fitting punishment meted out. Actions of this type have caused most town watches and Tyrists to brand priests of the Doombringer as vigilantes and raised the stature of the priesthood to that of champion of the downtroddon and underdogs in the eyes of the common folk.
I found it! Right under Dogma of the same post you quote. I knew it was considered credible where I got it! However good on you Thids to question me. I know I am a newb and all but I try to stay lore appropriate with in RP with Kory. My saying "forgiven" may be way off base though not exactly what I meant. Hoar being a lesser power would not likely directly intervene in many cases so that is not really the ideal here. So basically you would either prepare for the day when you were to pay the toll of vengeance and either die and pay the toll or again rebuke your attacker and live to see the next family member come for you.....lol

So I would amend it really. The answer is still No you do not have to willfully submit to vengeance. In fact I believe that goes against dogma as well. You have a choice. You can submit to it and thus end the cycle of perpetual violence that vengeance begets or you can prepare for it and meet it head on and live thereby perpetuating the cycle again.

To me the Dogma and all explanations are very vague and leave open much interpretation and thusly allowing for the constant feuding between sects of Hoarites. Any group that can range from LG to LE is bound to be a little wonky in some things...... :D
Last edited by Calodan on Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kory Sentinel
"We should take the army head on!"

"... it sounds like a terrible idea, but look at that smile."
"And he just sounds so confident ... he is a favored soul."
"Even if we don't survive, he will, and isn't that what matters?" -Red Lancer
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thids
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Re: Favored Soul character conceptualisation

Unread post by thids »

Ah I see what you mean. Hoar is a god of vengeance and poetic justice. If you fear retribution from someone, it is wise to ask for their clerics to pray for you. Similar to how most commoners or sailors would pray to Umberlee when going on a sea voyage, or how majority of commoners would pray to Talona in the times when diseases are rampant.

I think the key point is that the Hoarite clergy acts on behalf of people, not of their own accord. They seek out to hear out those who have a legitimate (in Hoar's eyes) cause for vengeance, but they don't act on their own accord in majority of cases.
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