How much impact does the grandfathered stuff have?

[Unka_Oogie]

I'm beginning to get an inkling that any PC I make will be one of the "men of clay" surrounded by "men of gold" (Greek myth reference). I hope that it's just a bit of "oof" from hearing vague, no-detailed stuff about "grandfathered" things.

Is it really a matter of, if you have the grandfathered stuff, you are forever-and-always a tier above all the peasants who started playing this server recently?

[Lockonnow]

well if you get a grandfathered you will build a toon after that item many dose that

[Lockonnow]

those that have grandfathered is become Dms

[mrieder79]

This "grandfathered" gear is getting blown way out of proportion. The properties of many of these objects are only slightly better than items available in the loot tables today. Additionally, we are revamping the loot system and the shop system to close the gap.

True power on this server lays in the hands of Divine Gishes and Bards, casters, and to a lesser extent, arcane gishes. Druids are strong too, but not as amazing with offense as some of the other strong builds. These builds can take items available in shops and make them very powerful. Power is primarily in the build.

If you are worried about being a 'man of gold' roll a Favored soul/Cleric/rogue and faceroll the server. I would be happy to share a build with you.

Happy playing.

I will also say that the most powerful item I've ever heard of came from the random item generator. That thing can spit out some real gems from time to time. One of my best weapons and my best helmet were not grandfathered or DM rewards. They were straight from the random item generator.

[DM Narshe]

Well designed builds and prepared/veterened players will probably always trump gear.

[mrieder79]

Yes. Exactly. My Dwarven Defender can faceroll the server with +3 gear. My poor archer could be fully equipped with grandfathered gear and still get owned when soloing nagas.

To be fair, the grandfathered stealth gear does make a noticeable difference for sneaks, but that's only in PVP. In PVM the stuff currently available is plenty good for sneaking spawns.

There are some things that can't be sneaked, but for all other things, what is available now will work with a good build.

[Maecius]

Hi U_O, good question!

When you're a new or returning character, it's easy to feel like you'll never have the power or pull of the celebrated heroes and villains on the server.

But it's important to remember that they started where you are, and climbed to where they are through effort and roleplay over many months. And with equal effort and time you can get there yourself!

Ultimately, your experience on the server is going to be what you make of it. The staff will always endeavour to make the playing field as even as possible, so that those seeking certain types of gaming experiences (loot, intrigue, epic battles, running a flower shop, etc.) have opportunities to pursue those experiences, but it's ultimately up to you what you get out of the server in terms of your enjoyment.

If you're seeking powerful gear, there are three primary routes to it: first, you can hunt for it in dungeons (there are rare powerful drops and treasures for the lucky and the persistent); second, you get involved in long term DM campaigns (this requires as much effort from the player as the DM, but DMs will sometimes give out epic gear at the end of a campaign if it's felt it's deserved and the Head DMs approve it); or you can trade for it (the server economy isn't perfect, but there is a vigorous player economy, as well as plans to open NPC vendors with pricy but powerful items for sale for those who have more luck finding gold than gear)!

Per your question, there are no godly items from "back in the day" that will automatically set a character up from success. Any item that seems overwhelmingly powerful should be reported to the DMs, however, as there are a handful that were attained illegally through hacking or cheating, and the DMs will want to correct the imbalance and ban or discipline the cheaters (or at least correct the items -- as some of this gear may have been passed around/inherited by otherwise innocent players). This however is very rare, and represents a problem to be corrected, not a status quo to be upheld.

[Rhifox]

DnD is not a game about balance. It was designed around parties working together to fight monsters, not other players. Some people will be more powerful. Some people will be less powerful. Some people will be minmaxed, some people will be purposefully underpowered because that is what fits the character.

Don't worry about whether or not you can 'stand up' against older players, or grandfathered items. Worry about whether or not you can make an impact, in whatever manner befits the character you want to play.

[mrieder79]

Ultimately, your experience on the server is going to be what you make of it. The staff will always endeavour to make the playing field as even as possible, so that those seeking certain types of gaming experiences (loot, intrigue, epic battles, running a flower shop, etc.)

You will NEVER find any flowerpots as good as the grandfathered flowerpots Deacon used to have. Those things were so OP!

[duracele]

Best stuff i have seen is +4 enchanted with a +3stat bonus. Do those still drop? Does +4 stat gear still drop?

[Karond]

I'm beginning to get an inkling that any PC I make will be one of the "men of clay" surrounded by "men of gold" (Greek myth reference). I hope that it's just a bit of "oof" from hearing vague, no-detailed stuff about "grandfathered" things.

Is it really a matter of, if you have the grandfathered stuff, you are forever-and-always a tier above all the peasants who started playing this server recently?

When I started on the server, I was told that it was impossible to eclipse the old veterans that got grandfathered gear. There seems to be a lapse in definition of this term, but to me it means equipment that once was available to the public, then taken away while letting those who already had one keep them. The grandfathered gear almost always came through shops, so it was super-easy to aquire them. These are some of the OP epic stealth equipment, the greater ring of intelligence and a bunch of not so great items. What makes it unfair is that the players that got these didn't put in any effort, they just bought the items, and now people can't do the same and some of them are almost priceless in value because of it. The staff should have pulled these items, like they did some, but they didn't care or know better back then.

The rest of the really strong items (which aren't grandfathered) are typically old DM rewards, or in some cases random loot generated items. In many cases, the effort spent here is also arguable. When the DM staff had virtually no oversight or know-how back in the day, several people got item rewards worth millions or of near priceless value for virtually nothing (like, a 45 min event). Some former DMs got banned for giving out free items to their friends and several of these items are still out there too no doubt.

I managed to aquire my wealth through the years by trading, always getting told that one could never compete with the old veterans that got all of this stuff virtually for free. Yet, I did. I'm much richer than the old veterans now. However, this is from several years and I wouldn't follow in my footsteps. Because in a certain way, it's virtually impossible to compete with those that got these free handouts for pretty much everyone. What can you do however to bridge the gap?

• Join a guild. One of the major guilds. When it comes to epic items, the staff is really conservative nowadays and they only go out to the playerbase for active participation in long storylines. I mean 5+ events long, or sometimes the metaplot which spans for a year. It's so much easier to get into these if you are in a big guild.
• Get a character that can fight bosses (You need to be melee-oriented). While chests are cool their pool of loot is limited, even the epic chests. Besides, all the named items have a certain value attached to them, and they are below the trading value of old DM rewards or grandfathered gear. Bosses however have a decent chance of dropping randomly generated loot, and this is where people find their +4 AC items, sometimes with extras, +4 ability items or Vamp reg weapons etc. Bosses include The Dracolich, The Balor, the Pit Fiend (UD only), Black Dragon, Frost Giant King, Lizardmen Chieftain (beyond cloudpeak mountains), Duergar Monk (UD only), Wormthrax, White Dragon and so on.
• Be careful with trading. If you look at the auction forum, almost every topic reads "I've a +2 dagger, a +3 shortsword and a spoon. I want a mithral fullplate. Contact me!". While a little outdated, this guide can help. In general though, try not to make trades where you give them one thing in return for many things, and try to see if the items are of somewhat equal value by thinking on which builds the items are useful. You can always ask others for an opinion too.
• Support more epic shops getting into the game on the forum!

Hope that helps

[KhyberKruel]

To add to the post above mine, there's a pit fiend on the surface within the Nashkel iron mines as well. My suggestion about "grandfathered" items is to make friends that can help your character do the things that you can not. I have a character that does little to know damage, but all his friends are dps squishes. Try not to worry about the strength of your character alone, but instead think of how best to fill in the role you wish to fill Items only get you so far alone after all... unless yer a divine gish >.>

[DreWalker]

Don't let anyone rush you into a sale. Or make you feel like you are being cheap because you don't think what you want for the item is correct. I sold two very good items for a pitiful amount of gold because of this and I'm still kicking myself!

[JCVD1]

Grandfathered gear is disapearing slowly, as ancient players left the server, stoped playing etc.

There are some who have stealth gear that no matter your level/skill/spells you cannot spot them because of the grandfathered gear.

Some have helmets with true sight or equivalent.

These items, even if few in number, need to get removed. Fairness obliges.

[crimsonrain15]

I'm pretty sure that a constant effect Truesight helm is illegal... but nothing wrong with a spell/day truesight something.