Working Through the Update

[CommanderKrieg]

First, this post maybe should be in the suggestions thread, but I put it here so I could get a lot of input.

So as I have come to accept: There Will Be No Rollback.

With that said, its time we as players start working on building up within the new constraints and expansions in the server. Many of the monsters and areas were built at a time where it was acceptable to have a WM/FB/SD without 19 Dex. Some areas more than most, and several of them are gone. Long story short, we will have to travel in parties more than ever before, because our classes are more constrained. This is fine, as I actually enjoy grouping over solo grinding. RPing with a group has always won over grinding for me. I think what we need to be doing is rethinking grouping.

As it is now, groups cant exceed 6 PCs or there is a huge XP curve. With the new updates characters will need to rely on one another, and each individual will more or less be weaker than before (There are some exceptions).

Another issue is the lack of PCs to form groups. While there are 40+ people online, only some of them are in your level range. Those that you do find that are interested in going out and exploring, may not even be in that level range. This causes a lot of frustration.

I dont mind relying on group environments for exploration, but the way that groups are as of now? Its difficult to get anything moving.

Recap:
-Server numbers are low, finding a group in your level range that can function as a proper group is difficult.
-Not every group is Fighter, sorcerer, healer.
-XP is curved after 6 individuals


How can we make this better? How can we make groups more effective if groups are the focus?

[Boddynock]

Give PCs in a group a 15%-25% bonus to combat XP... People will go out of their way to find groups for that.

[CommanderKrieg]

Epics shouldnt have to punish groups to be a part of them. Yes, I believe that we shouldnt implement power leveling; however usually after I reach 30 I stop going on exploration parties because I get yelled at for XP loss. Then my character parks over by the FAI and talks about his days of exploration. Sometimes sulks to the Gate where he talks about ale, while waiting for the next DM event to give him some meaning in life.

With the scattered levels around and the new constraints, its my opinion that we should allow epics who get no XP to contribute to groups at a more reasonable XP cut. There have been many times where my level thirty went on complete roleplay hunting groups with doron amar to help train their military. We had a great time and did this for two hours, but OOC it was a bit souring because with all the training RP, speaking RP, and contributions towards furthering RP.. We did everything from sparring, lore education, teaching about the monsters of the region, an introduction to botany, and demonstrations of techniques.

These guys would have got more xp if they went to kill goblins for 30 mins, due to the party size, level difference, and other xp constraints.

[roke42]

Maybe an alteration of the current XP system is needed. Maybe something like removing the XP penalty for having someone out of your level range in your party, but altering the XP you gain to a reasonable amount fitting your character level. An amount similar to what you would get if you kill mobs in your level range in a group of your level range.

Here I don't know how the current XP system exactly works, and what possibilities we have by coding, or the math that is needed behind it, so it's only an idea so far.

[Bad Omens]

The number of Dispel Mobs needs to decrease, or the time between resting and/or resting only zones on maps should be minimized, or removed.

[Calodan]

It is about time we started talking about giving INCENTIVES to group up.

1.Relaxing the PC level gap to 10 levels apart would help for one.

2.No longer penalizing parties of larger than 6 groups this makes no sense and why shouldn't 20 low levels go hunting a very large prey that three of them could not handle?

3.Giving XP bonuses to parties of less than 6 but not penalizing them for more than 6. So a bonus of say 10% if in party of 2, 15% for party of 4 and 20% for parties of 6. Any party that is solo or larger than 6 gets normal XP progression long as every PC is within 10 levels of each other.

4.Possible XP pool weekly to help offset the occasional party where a person is 11+ levels apart to encourage grouping of non-levels now and again. Say 8500 XP a week. This is actually roughly the amount quests give in a 2-3 hour game time spent, could eliminate all XP gains from quests and only give gold instead weekly in favor of this weekly XP pool for everyone.

All of these are what are called incentives to party up instead of solo. Coupled with the current loot system and server changes should balance out quite nicely and we should see more and more groups out there RPing it up. This of course is never a guaranteed fix but nothing is. Those who wish to be anti social on a social server like myself at times will always be that way no matter what. We could in fact call people like myself "THE 10%". With that said there should be no reason we can not institute more INCENTIVES like the ones I mentioned for those that would appreciate it and utilize it the way it was intended? That is of course dependent on what is possible within the game engine and time DEVs want to spend on it. We do have to first work out a lot of bugs and after that the DEVs may need a break for a bit.

[roke42]

4.Possible XP pool weekly to help offset the occasional party where a person is 11+ levels apart to encourage grouping of non-levels now and again. Say 8500 XP a week. This is actually roughly the amount quests give in a 2-3 hour game time spent, could eliminate all XP gains from quests and only give gold instead weekly in favor of this weekly XP pool for everyone.

Don't cut of ther XP gain from quests. There might be characters that don't go out hunting for whatever reason, and this would cut off their main XP source.

[Steve]

The XP gain between Toons of a 10 level difference can be 20 points.

Thus a lvl 10 could bring along a level 1, cast invisibility on the lvl 1, then drag them through an Area killing mobs like spreading butter...while the level 1 gets 40-50 XP per kill for doing nothing.

Far too easy to power level.

The XP "curves" after 6 because a Party of 6 plus summons and companions can Rule a Over just about any Area currently in game. Decreasing the curve would provide yet another means to power level.

The title of this post is misleading.

[Maximvs]

Saying that :

1- Groups of more than 6 get little xp and
2- It's hard to form groups because of the level range

are two arguments that kind of contradict each other, don't you think?

[Tantive]

Saying that :

1- Groups of more than 6 get little xp and
2- It's hard to form groups because of the level range

are two arguments that kind of contradict each other, don't you think?

Hard does not mean impossible. But yes to play together, there should be less barriers and decentives.

[CommanderKrieg]

The update made sense in many respects.

CL is going to be a struggle for casters, even those that are going pure CL 30+. When they are level 28-30 they'll be fine, but before then comes the big problem. All of the levels in between will be a incredibly vulnerable time for casters; hence why groups will be important.

Even in an idea group where there is a fighter, wizard, cleric etc, the fighter goes frontline with the wards of the wizard. That wizard has a CL 11, and a dispell would level all of those buffs. The cleric would struggle to keep them alive due to their low CL at lower levels. So to compensate, it would make sense to have more PCs in a group. That way when some of the wards are stripped, there is a relief spell caster that could step in. (It is assumed in this example that the wizard uses his/her spell slots to ward themselves and the fighter; leaving nearly no spell slots to cast at lower levels)

Having a higher number of individuals in a group with varying levels would make for a far more effective group. I'm all for the changes, but there should be some accommodations to encourage grouping and of course RP.

I'm just brainstorming. Again, the update is not the end of the world but it is a new world. We can adjust just fine, but we need to encourage groups and RP more.

[CommanderKrieg]

The number of Dispel Mobs needs to decrease, or the time between resting and/or resting only zones on maps should be minimized, or removed.

I agree with this. With current dispellings, you could easily waste the entirety of your spell book in a couple rounds. Even by being "tactful and strategic", spawns come in at random in random areas. There is no finite way to prepare for mobs if they spawn quite literally next to you.

[Thorsson]

The current situation can be summarised simply in two words, "We're **cked".

Or "How I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb".

[Calodan]

The XP gain between Toons of a 10 level difference can be 20 points.

Thus a lvl 10 could bring along a level 1, cast invisibility on the lvl 1, then drag them through an Area killing mobs like spreading butter...while the level 1 gets 40-50 XP per kill for doing nothing.

Far too easy to power level.

The XP "curves" after 6 because a Party of 6 plus summons and companions can Rule a Over just about any Area currently in game. Decreasing the curve would provide yet another means to power level.

The title of this post is misleading.

I have a hard time swallowing this argument pill mainly because I can get a PC to level 5 within a few hours of solid play as the XP needed for each level is really not that big a gap. Also because once I reach level 5 I can go get roughly 30-40 XP a kill in the Batiri mines killing spiders and Batiri in a quick fasion. Then with a bit of fire or acid I can equally start getting that amount of XP from trolls and then from there the Orc's cave in Sharpteeth. In fact for the more educated of this server and not new players we know exactly where to get that kind of XP regularly in groups or solo. So you are literally saying that 10 more XP when in groups is a bad thing...........Did I mention those numbers can be done solo not even in a group? So yeah.......

[Steve]

So you are literally saying that 10 more XP when in groups is a bad thing?

Did I literally write this?

If you can get your own PC to lvl 5 in a matter of hours, chapeau! But by removing the level gap cap, you could also get another PC thousands of XP in hours as well...and they'd have to submit to little to no risk vs. reward.

In addition, imagine this same structure being used by a lvl 20 for a level 10. Since grinding XP is unlimited to nothing but the RL hours you can put in to the Game, 2 people without a Level Gap Cap could easily lvl to 20 a Toon in no time. Remember the paradigm in effect? That is slow down leveling.

I was not arguing that Groups should get any amount of less XP...if they are within a good Level range. I think it currently is within 5 levels. That varies with the CR of the mobs, of course, when determining the XP per kill payout.

But what I wanted to point out is that a Party of more than 6 PCs can pretty much rule any Area we have in game, currently. So allowing for more PCs without an XP penalty is, once again, giving into the power leveling mentality. Which goes against the existing paradigm.