Sacred Fist

[CommanderKrieg]

Hey everyone

I was wondering after the update how should sacred fists can bend to accommodate the dispelling changes? I loaded one build up with cleric to try to get a cleric monk, and it only topped out between 21-24 CL. That was on the high end.

I'm not doubting that sf/m/c is extremely powerful, but are they useless against a dispel wand now?

I've had a lot of fun with rebuilding my characters and actually managed to make several of them more enjoyable. I am sincerely asking how I would go about building one that doesn't get dispelled. =]

[chad878262]

M5/cl9/sf10/Heirophant 6... cl30

[CommanderKrieg]

Nice! Could you possibly put one of those builds together? I have someone looking for one.

[Lanzlo]

Yes, I'd like to take a look at it as well. Please.

[Khaje]

I would also.

[chad878262]

http://nwn2db.com/build/?237546

Fair warning, I through this together a few days ago and haven't had a chance to really look at the feats, level plan or skills so it should only be considered a starting point for the concept.

It losses monk 11 that most sacred fist builds have always focused on, so that extra attack will be missed, as will improved knock down...

Focusing on wisdom is not a good option since you can't get AB based on it and you don't get diamond soul, so no access to epic monk damage feat.

However, you are now a level 30 caster that does ok damage with fists, our other monk weapons if you have/find a decent one. Plus with the strength domain you'll be able to have loads of extended divine power goodness...

[Steve]

http://nwn2db.com/build/?237546

Fair warning,

The AC on this build is simply not good enough.

[chad878262]

42 is Cranston's AC before using a ring of shield and he does fine in most of the 'lower epic' area's. Can defeat the black dragon in Durlag's, the Pit Fiend in Nashkel, Wormthrax (sp?)... Also, Cleric buff's will help as well, right?

You could also drop Strength Domain and select a Deity with Earth Domain for a bit more Natural AC... Like I said, I threw this together and haven't really dissected it yet, but if you want to have a better chance of not being dispelled you simply are not going to get as many Monk levels. You can certainly still make a M11/C9/SF10, but with PSC your caster level is 21 so you simply need to accept that you will get dispelled anywhere that hass dispels.

[CommanderKrieg]

This looks good Chad. Respectively I have to admit it doesnt really encompass what a sacred fist should be. This is more or less a cleric that punches things, rather than a monk. I'd have to run it through the test module to see what works. It really is a good CL build, but it requires a particular god with particular domains. I'm unsure the player can fufill with their RP.

This is great, less effective than the regular. However the regular SF build is godlike, so its good they can be humbled by a dispell wand. I used to pick out my coffin with tears in my eyes everytime a SF would start warding and told me I'm dead meat.

[chad878262]

Yeah, I honestly believe this is a great example of where the Dispel fix to work the way it is supposed to really shines. A CL 21 SF is godlike so long as they don't get dispelled. The build I present is obviously giving up some of the Monk-y stuff to gain CL, BUT that is kind of the point! Become a caster who has some monk training for the benefit of better, longer lasting, more difficult to dispel wards.

note that you COULD go the route of replacing some Cleric and SF levels with Monk at the expense of CL and still be above CL 21 while gaining some more monk-ness.

For instance, here are some changes that make the CL 28 instead of 30, but add a couple more Monk levels. I didn't adjust skills or feats and the leveling plan is not optimized (literally just throwing stuff on there without really checking for 'build quality'.)

http://nwn2db.com/build/?237827

Really any god that grants the Strength Domain will work for the extra divine power uses, but there are other domains that also grant really nice benefits such as Earth for barkskin/stoneskin... I would just shy away from domains that grant benefits based on cleric level or charisma modifier, but honestly that is no different than the previous SF 'rules of building'.

Also note that this is just about as good as it gets since any more monk or SF pre-20 is going to make it so you can't qualify for Heirophant. You could replace two Heirophant levels in epic to gain Monk 9 for improved evasion, but you lose 3 CL from 28 down to 25...

[CommanderKrieg]

Definitely, this is about as close as you can get without risking dispell. Thanks Chad!

[Lanzlo]

Yes, very nice Chad. Thank you.

[chad878262]

you're both very welcome, best of luck and enjoy!

[Thorsson]

If there's only one way to make a viable SF then something is seriously wrong...

[chad878262]

it's not that there is 1 way... I posted 2 different builds, one CL 30, one CL 28. I also advised on a 3rd build for CL25. The 'standard' M11/C9/SF10 is also fine at CL21, but as CL goes down your going to get dispelled more often, this is a trade off for having more monk fist damage, more attacks/round, improved evasion, etc.

As has been discussed in other threads there are going to be adjustments to account for the dispel fix, so builds that have below CL29 are not going to be completely useless.... There will be area's they will struggle solo that perhaps before they pwn'd, but that is probably a good thing.

If you want to be a Gish, regardless if it is arcane or divine, archer or melee you are going to have to consider what you want more of...CL or combat ability. Building a PC is all about what you want to get and what you have to give up to get it....no different here.