The Shadow Weave

[grymhild]

Does anyone know of any PC in the history of this server that ever learned about the existence of the Shadow Weave or gained access to the Shadow Weave outside of Shar's faithful?

[mrm3ntalist]

Does anyone know of any PC in the history of this server that ever learned about the existence of the Shadow Weave or gained access to the Shadow Weave outside of Shar's faithful?

No. Shadow Weave is supposed to be known only to shadow adepts, thats why they are application only.

[Karond]

Is it really though? Just google some sources for the shadow adept and shadow weave (or related shadow magic) and it's quite clear that shadow adepts are specialists, but not exclusive users of the shadow weave. As for the question, not even Shar worshippers are exclusive to it. Losing a piece of your mind or some agreement are viable options (it seems to be so for deities with darkness as part of their portfolio especially; Shar, Mask, Lloth and several others).

That said, I don't think the staff has ever accepted any other application than the "I worship Shar. She totally told me about this weave and so I know about it" types.So for now, you'll have to follow suit.

Shar can be an odd deity. The dogma says that you should never have hope, never try to better your lot in life. Take that with a large dose of salt though, as almost every named Shar Worshipper from lore is quite ambitious which goes against the dogma.

[DM Galatea]

Hello,

It is fairly heavily implied in the dogma of Shar not to give secrets up to anyone but the faithful. So while such secrets may sneak out from time to time (with the Shadow Weave being a fairly remarkable one), it is likely that Shar Herself would fairly viciously persecute those who would leak such secrets unless She saw fit for them to spread.

The Shadow Weave itself is part of a sinister power game of Shars own making and she would not likely not allow it to be jeopardised by a lowly mortal. While Gods have limits and are far from omnipotent, the kind of tortures inflicted upon wayward users of the Shadow weave include a number of mental afflictions designed to make them unreliable sources, particularly insanity or amnesia.

Further, in the case of such wayward individuals, their journalistic pursuits, copies or otherwise would be relentlessly pursued both by Mystrans (for whom the Weave itself is a matter of faith and mention of a Shadow Weave would be heresy or blasphemy) and Sharrans (who do not seek to have the Shadow Weave revealed).

Simply put, stating it outright is at best a licence to permanent crippling mental illness and to murder, execution or worse. Their written material would be at best discredited or at worst destroyed by any of the involved camps.

However, this is not an official DM ruling, simply a humble ADM's interpretation of the lore Please keep that in mind and that as a DM, I will hue to any official rulings stated by the staff. I actually did play a Sharran once upon a time on a NWN1 server and those were more or less the rules they operated under.

- Galatea

[ctothep]

You do not have to be a faithful of Shar to be granted access to the shadow weave but as Karond pointed out some form of agreement has to be made with Shar and the deity the character in question is worshipping.

I think this very much depends on the edition though. In 3.5 the shadow weave is being kept very secret by Shar and the ones she grants access to it so it is very unlikely that someone outside Shars faithful will be given knowledge as opposed to later editions. I believe after the time of troubles she even wants everyone and their mother to know about the shadow weave and get as many spellcasters as possible to abandon mystras weave and use the shadow weave instead.

Is it really though? Just google some sources for the shadow adept and shadow weave (or related shadow magic) and it's quite clear that shadow adepts are specialists, but not exclusive users of the shadow weave.

Shadow magic is actually not related to the shadow weave. They are both two different things. Shadow magic is an illusion subschool which draws its power from the plane of shadow to fuel the spells. It can be cast using Mystras weave aswell as the shadow weave. It is however empowered if being cast with the shadow weave as it is illusion magic.

I am pretty sure this is a mistake with the shadow adept PRC iteration here on BGTSCC because once you have a SA lvl you get the "Shadow Magic" feat which labels all your spells as shadow magic but they do not neccessarily have to be even if you cast spells via the shadow weave.

Shar can be an odd deity. The dogma says that you should never have hope, never try to better your lot in life. Take that with a large dose of salt though, as almost every named Shar Worshipper from lore is quite ambitious which goes against the dogma.

It's actually "It is forbidden to strive to better your lot in life or to plan ahead save when directly overseen by the faithful of the Dark Deity".

I believe this relates to the very strict structures of the church of Shar. Don't question your superiors or try to better your position within the hierarchy and stuff like that, if you are worthy it will come naturally. I don't think it forbids someone to be ambitious. It's very much up for interpretation though as are many dogmas of other deities not just Shars.

[thids]

Actually, the only reason why it's so exclusively forbidden to anyone but the most faithful of Shar, is because we are in 1352. I believe.

[ctothep]

The Shadow Weave itself is part of a sinister power game of Shars own making and she would not likely not allow it to be jeopardised by a lowly mortal. While Gods have limits and are far from omnipotent, the kind of tortures inflicted upon wayward users of the Shadow weave include a number of mental afflictions designed to make them unreliable sources, particularly insanity or amnesia.

Also before the time of troubles gods can directly intervene in mortal affairs which means should there be a shadow adept going around telling everyone about the shadow weave Shar can just get rid of him. She can do this herself so unless you want a god as your enemy i suggest you think it through first

[Boddynock]

Well, I guess this isn't an IC post, so the caveat to keep everything a secret all the time does not apply (Oh Shar, lol). But to answer your question briefly, yes, I know for certain of at least one Shadow Adept who is not a primary Sharran, and I know that person has DM approval for such.

That being said, I also know that person has taken steps to appease Shar IC, regardless of the fact that Shar is not that person's primary deity.

Once you access the shadow weave, Mystra won't let you use her weave any more. And since Shar is 100% ok with cutting off access to the shadow weave as a punishment (or on a whim), a non-Sharran shadow adept has to walk a fine line of appeasement while not falling into absolute corruption.

And before anyone screams "lore-breaking!" Remember that Shar is the lady of loss. Do you really think she would be above letting someone have a taste of the shadow weave, then taking it away, and watching their face as the realization dawns on them that Mystra's weave is now lost to them for good? And then following that up with an offer to grant access to the shadow weave in exchange for some sort of servitude?

[Karond]

Once you access the shadow weave, Mystra won't let you use her weave any more

If that's true, it implies Mystra knows about the Shadow Weave, which implies that plenty of Mystrans might know of it as well, which in turn makes the whole thing an ill-kept secret. So is that true?

Shadow magic is actually not related to the shadow weave. They are both two different things.

Of course they're different things. I didn't say they were one and the same, but they're clearly not opposites and such have a lot more in common than most other types of magic. The ones using shadow magic are called shadowcasters, and shadow adepts are a type of shadowcaster that just uses the shadow weave instead of mystra's weave. It's even mentioned that "Shadow magic casters could thus truly understand the Shadow Weave, and many were naturally attracted to it and could learn to utilize it"

[Rhifox]

Once you access the shadow weave, Mystra won't let you use her weave any more

If that's true, it implies Mystra knows about the Shadow Weave, which implies that plenty of Mystrans might know of it as well, which in turn makes the whole thing an ill-kept secret. So is that true?

It is.

Once a creature has chosen the Shadow Weave, no known way exists for it to draw upon the true Weave in the former manner, although a wish, miracle, or similar magic might work.

I would expect that it has less to do with Mystra intentionally cutting them off, and more that the Shadow Weave itself traps its users in it. Shar doesn't want people going back to Mystra. Mystra doesn't know that her users have gone to the Shadow Weave, and so probably doesn't know that they can no longer access the original Weave.

[Karond]

That makes a lot more sense

[DM Pun Pun]

Actually, the only reason why it's so exclusively forbidden to anyone but the most faithful of Shar, is because we are in 1352. I believe.

Correct.

Its also worth noting Shar has complete control of her Weave up until the Spellplague, so she can shut you down whenever she feels like it.

[thids]

Can I get a special title on the forums now? Something like "the most esteemed loremaster of bgtscc" will do.

[DM_Absolution]

Can I get a special title on the forums now? Something like "the most esteemed loremaster of bgtscc" will do.

Uhm....no.

[ctothep]

Actually, the only reason why it's so exclusively forbidden to anyone but the most faithful of Shar, is because we are in 1352. I believe.

Correct.

Its also worth noting Shar has complete control of her Weave up until the Spellplague, so she can shut you down whenever she feels like it.

She also sees your treachery coming 180 days before you actually betray her by spreading knowledge of her weave and can just take appropriate actions before hand... unless you manage to only do it during daytime, i guess

Portfolio Sense: Shar senses any act of treachery or nihilism that takes place under the cover of darkness eighteen tendays before it happens and retains the sensation for eighteen tendays after the event occurs.