New Ranger Build

[weasleyreader]

Hoping for a bit of help. I am creating my first character and have decided to do a pure ranger build for this character. I am hoping to have a pretty even damage role with my companion animal and will be using ranged weapons rather than two-handed. Can someone provide recommendations for base stat allocations and feats and such? I am leaning towards a Human character but can be swayed otherwise.

Bonus points for build links.
Cookies for epic animal companion.

[zyztem]

Hoping for a bit of help. I am creating my first character and have decided to do a pure ranger build for this character. I am hoping to have a pretty even damage role with my companion animal and will be using ranged weapons rather than two-handed. Can someone provide recommendations for base stat allocations and feats and such? I am leaning towards a Human character but can be swayed otherwise.

Bonus points for build links.
Cookies for epic animal companion.

Here is a ranger that is not only one of the best ranger builds, hes one of the best ranged builds in game.
He hit for 80+ against favored enemies, ~60 against un-favored, Per Hit.
He has some very useful buffes, and HIPs and all the other ranger goodies
He has nature bond plus epic animal companion

http://nwn2db.com/build/?238387

Where are my cookies?

[Uranus]

Hoping for a bit of help. I am creating my first character and have decided to do a pure ranger build for this character. I am hoping to have a pretty even damage role with my companion animal and will be using ranged weapons rather than two-handed. Can someone provide recommendations for base stat allocations and feats and such? I am leaning towards a Human character but can be swayed otherwise.

Bonus points for build links.
Cookies for epic animal companion.

Here is a ranger that is not only one of the best ranger builds, hes one of the best ranged builds in game.
He hit for 80+ against favored enemies, ~60 against un-favored, Per Hit.
He has some very useful buffes, and HIPs and all the other ranger goodies
He has nature bond plus epic animal companion

http://nwn2db.com/build/?238387

Where are my cookies?

Throws a cookie Really nice build!

You need to keep in mind that rangers have dispel issues currently. Even a level30 ranger has less that caster level 30 so it can get dispeled.

[AlfarinIcebreaker]

No Blinding Speed? A must have on a crossbow build, especially with dispel changes, IMO.

Next, I'd prefer bow over crossbow. Why? Because of the One Shot, or better say Two Shot once you take the feat once more as a Ranger in addition to free feat you get on 21th Ranger's level. One Shot takes advantage of bow's higher critical modifier, and having two of these feats will be a nice addition, especially against dreaded Storm Avatar Druids (if we are talking PvP) but also elsewhere in PvE.

Furthermore, I'd rather go 26 Ranger/4 Fighter. With Practiced Spellcaster you will remain on 30CL but Fighter will net you +4 to damage and +2 to AB which is huge. You will lose out on one FE group and some animal companion progression, but I think it's well worth it.

[zyztem]

No Blinding Speed? A must have on a crossbow build, especially with dispel changes, IMO.

Next, I'd prefer bow over crossbow. Why? Because of the One Shot, or better say Two Shot once you take the feat once more as a Ranger in addition to free feat you get on 21th Ranger's level. One Shot takes advantage of bow's higher critical modifier, and having two of these feats will be a nice addition, especially against dreaded Storm Avatar Druids (if we are talking PvP) but also elsewhere in PvE.

Furthermore, I'd rather go 26 Ranger/4 Fighter. With Practiced Spellcaster you will remain on 30CL but Fighter will net you +4 to damage and +2 to AB which is huge. You will lose out on one FE group and some animal companion progression, but I think it's well worth it.

Yeah bow can be better in certain situations in the late game, however, crossbow is MUCH better at leveling due to the high damage from the get go, and perform better in most situations.(how many percentage of the player base has storm avatar? and how often do you pvp them? once 2 month?)

As for the fighter level part, I cannot disagree more.

Here is what you lose from taking levels on fighters.

1, 2AB and 2AC with protective ward

2, Animal companion levels

3, skill points, and early game spell progression

4, you lose two extra epic feats

5, you lose 1 favored enemy, and 1 damage against favored enemies

If you want to use bow and have figher levels, its better to have a non-ranger.

Like ftr8/ea5/ass8/AA9

[thids]

1. make a crossbow build
2. level to ~20
3. use the 100% rcr to rcr into a bow build
4. watch certain someone rant about 100% RCR on the forums
5. ???
6. profit

[zyztem]

5. ???

Catish: 5. Laugh maniacally

[AlfarinIcebreaker]

No Blinding Speed? A must have on a crossbow build, especially with dispel changes, IMO.

Next, I'd prefer bow over crossbow. Why? Because of the One Shot, or better say Two Shot once you take the feat once more as a Ranger in addition to free feat you get on 21th Ranger's level. One Shot takes advantage of bow's higher critical modifier, and having two of these feats will be a nice addition, especially against dreaded Storm Avatar Druids (if we are talking PvP) but also elsewhere in PvE.

Furthermore, I'd rather go 26 Ranger/4 Fighter. With Practiced Spellcaster you will remain on 30CL but Fighter will net you +4 to damage and +2 to AB which is huge. You will lose out on one FE group and some animal companion progression, but I think it's well worth it.

Yeah bow can be better in certain situations in the late game, however, crossbow is MUCH better at leveling due to the high damage from the get go, and perform better in most situations.(how many percentage of the player base has storm avatar? and how often do you pvp them? once 2 month?)

As for the fighter level part, I cannot disagree more.

Here is what you lose from taking levels on fighters.

1, 2AB and 2AC with protective ward

2, Animal companion levels

3, skill points, and early game spell progression

4, you lose two extra epic feats

5, you lose 1 favored enemy, and 1 damage against favored enemies

If you want to use bow and have figher levels, its better to have a non-ranger.

Like ftr8/ea5/ass8/AA9

What are you talking about? Protective Ward nets you second point of AC on 24th level, so you don't lose anything. 2 epic feats? You lose 1, the one on level 29. And the skill loss is measly 16 points, nothing too important.

[weasleyreader]

Thanks guys! Looks like a great build to start with. Not a huge fan of dinosaurs but we'll see lol.

[zyztem]

No Blinding Speed? A must have on a crossbow build, especially with dispel changes, IMO.

Next, I'd prefer bow over crossbow. Why? Because of the One Shot, or better say Two Shot once you take the feat once more as a Ranger in addition to free feat you get on 21th Ranger's level. One Shot takes advantage of bow's higher critical modifier, and having two of these feats will be a nice addition, especially against dreaded Storm Avatar Druids (if we are talking PvP) but also elsewhere in PvE.

Furthermore, I'd rather go 26 Ranger/4 Fighter. With Practiced Spellcaster you will remain on 30CL but Fighter will net you +4 to damage and +2 to AB which is huge. You will lose out on one FE group and some animal companion progression, but I think it's well worth it.

Yeah bow can be better in certain situations in the late game, however, crossbow is MUCH better at leveling due to the high damage from the get go, and perform better in most situations.(how many percentage of the player base has storm avatar? and how often do you pvp them? once 2 month?)

As for the fighter level part, I cannot disagree more.

Here is what you lose from taking levels on fighters.

1, 2AB and 2AC with protective ward

2, Animal companion levels

3, skill points, and early game spell progression

4, you lose two extra epic feats

5, you lose 1 favored enemy, and 1 damage against favored enemies

If you want to use bow and have figher levels, its better to have a non-ranger.

Like ftr8/ea5/ass8/AA9

What are you talking about? Protective Ward nets you second point of AC on 24th level, so you don't lose anything. 2 epic feats? You lose 1, the one on level 29. And the skill loss is measly 16 points, nothing too important.

sorry about protective ward, my bad I forgot that in this server you dont get any bonuses for being a pure ranger.

Still, my points 2,3,4,5 stand.

also, getting 4 levels of fighters before level 20 means you get bane of enemies at level 25 instead of level 21.

[Truthiness]

Blinding speed is indeed a must on a crossbow ranger (or really any crossbow sniper without sneak dice), it basically allows you to use it upon coming out of hips and immediately have a hasted attack round, compared to having to wait a round to attack after using the Bracers of Blinding Strike.

As far as whether to go ranger 30 or ranger 26/fighter 4. Both are equally viable.
Ranger 26/fighter 4 does more damage per shot and has higher AB, allowing for more flexibility in what you fight, as you aren't as limited to only fighting your favored enemies effectively (you still lose quite a bit of damage, it's just not as major as a ranger 30). You lose out on having a powerful animal companion and you lose one epic feat along with 16 skill points (which isn't a huge loss, considering how many you get) and 4 caster levels (I would suggest using a fighter bonus feat to take weapon focus: light/heavy crossbow and taking Practiced Spellcaster: Ranger in it's place to make up for the lost CL).
Ranger 30 gets one more favored enemy, one more epic feat, 16 more skill points, doesn't have to take PSC: Ranger to get 30 CL (which isn't much of a gain over ranger 26/fighter 4, because the feat is effectively free for the build, just need 4 spellcraft) and gets access to a powerful animal companion (if you take natural bond and epic animal companion, you'll need to spend spells to buff it, though). You lose 3-4 damage per shot (6-8 with manyshot) and 2 AB, generally limiting yourself to only fighting favored enemies as effectively.

In short, your choice generally hinges on whether you wanting to use and buff the animal companion or not and if you are mostly fighting your favored enemies. If you want to use the companion and will be fighting mostly your favored enemies (which generally requires you to choose favored enemies that are most common on the server), go ranger 30. If you don't want to use the companion and want have a bit more flexibility in what you fight no matter your favored enemies, ranger 26/fighter 4 might be a better choice.



For the crossbow vs longbow debate. They both have their merits, longbow generally outperforming crossbow against most server content, crossbow outperforming longbow against those high AC/DR targets.

With a crossbow, you do more damage per shot, but you will be limited to 3 attacks per round (4 if hasted, last attack if hasted is not a manyshot). Those three attacks will be at high ABs, you'll generally hit most targets with all attacks, so your damage will be pretty consistent. You'll need to invest at least two more feats than longbow to make it work, which can make you a bit feat starved as shown in zyztem's build (taking improved critical on an epic feat). You can find Rapid Reload on many crossbows on the server, so it's not specifically needed, but nice to fit into a build, as it allows for more flexibility in crossbows.
Fighting the few enemies with Deflect Arrow is a pain with a crossbow, as they effectively nullify 1/3~ of your damage, compared to 1/5~ of a longbowers damage. (not counting if you are trying to be mobile while attacking, in which a unhasted crossbow becomes pretty useless against a target with Deflect Arrow)
Fighting enemies with shields is also quite a bit tougher with crossbows than longbows, as shields allow a target to have a chance of parrying ranged attacks, which nullifies quite a bit more crossbow damage than longbow damage.
Keep in mind that crossbow sniper does not work with One Shot, so you'll only get around 50~ damage on a one shot with a crossbow, compared to 100~ with a longbow (both on a ranger).
Some form of haste is generally needed with a crossbow to perform well, whether through the Bracers of Blinding Strike (10 rounds per use, 2 uses/day, can have multiple) or the epic feat Blinding Speed (10 rounds per use, 4 uses/day, instantly activated). If you don't have haste, you will only get one attack in the first flurry, so most of your damage will be spread throughout the round, requiring you to hold still to do decent amounts of damage. If you are hasted, you get two attacks in the first flurry, allowing you to have some mobility while still doing decent amounts of damage.

With a longbow, you do less damage per shot, but you can get 7 attacks per round (8 if hasted, 4-5 attacks are not manyshots), which makes it scale better with any damage you can get (favored enemies bonuses, fighter levels, arrows, higher EB weapon, having a bard in the party, etc) as each shot gets the full damage bonus.
The AB on the later attacks will lower quite a bit more than crossbow (your lowest AB attack will be at -25 of your cap), but as a ranger (especially a ranger/fighter) you have a decent chance of hitting on all attacks against most of the server's monsters, especially if you can raise your AB through other ways (heroism scrolls, having a bard around).
Longbows have most of the damage front-loaded into the first flurry of the round, able to do all three manyshots on the first flurry, allowing you to do decent damage and then scurry about without losing too much of your damage. Compared to a crossbow, which either loses too much damage by attempting to be mobile or has to be hasted. Effectively, longbows are far more mobile than crossbows, and mobility on a ranger is very useful, especially indoors where you can't hips.

In short...
If you want to have an easier time leveling, do more damage against high AC/DR targets (generally bosses), hit just about every time and see those big damage numbers, go crossbow. (Crossbows are also far more stylish, Deathgrowl is kidding himself)
If you want to have a bit more flexibility, scale a bit better, perform a bit better against most content, have more mobility and not rely so much on haste, go longbow.

For longbows you want to invest a bit into strength, to raise the damage of each shot with Mighty.
For crossbows, you can generally pump dexterity to max, with a bit into strength for some damage with Mighty. (how does a crossbow even get mighty?)



Blindfight is not really needed on a BGTSCC ranger build, they get it through a level 1 spell called Embrace the Wild, and you only really need it against a very few specific enemies on the surface. I might suggest taking extend spell instead of blindfight in zyztem's build, as it provides quite a bit more flexibility and utility.

[Thorsson]

Still, my points 2,3,4,5 stand.

No, 4 was shown to be incorrect and 3 fairly unimportant.

Point 5 - you lose 1 damage against FEs, but you gain 4 damage against everything! How can that not be a good deal?

As for animal companions, meh anyway. The AI sucks.

P.S. Blinding speed is not needed on a Bard Xbow Sniper....

[Uranus]

Point 5 - you lose 1 damage against FEs, but you gain 4 damage against everything! How can that not be a good deal?

Personally i would prefer the extra FE than the extra damage from Fighter4. The reasons why are
- +1 damage to all FEs. That is 7 damage instead of 6
- One more FE can open up more areas to the rangers, or make him able to Solo more bosses.
- One more FE means another group of mobs that you can do +7 and +2d6 damage at a +2AB

I think that for BG the sweet spot is 8FEs. Maybe allow rangers choose FEs as a ranger epic feat?

[zyztem]

Blinding speed is indeed a must on a crossbow ranger (or really any crossbow sniper without sneak dice), it basically allows you to use it upon coming out of hips and immediately have a hasted attack round, compared to having to wait a round to attack after using the Bracers of Blinding Strike.

As far as whether to go ranger 30 or ranger 26/fighter 4. Both are equally viable.
Ranger 26/fighter 4 does more damage per shot and has higher AB, allowing for more flexibility in what you fight, as you aren't as limited to only fighting your favored enemies effectively (you still lose quite a bit of damage, it's just not as major as a ranger 30). You lose out on having a powerful animal companion and you lose one epic feat along with 16 skill points (which isn't a huge loss, considering how many you get) and 4 caster levels (I would suggest using a fighter bonus feat to take weapon focus: light/heavy crossbow and taking Practiced Spellcaster: Ranger in it's place to make up for the lost CL).
Ranger 30 gets one more favored enemy, one more epic feat, 16 more skill points, doesn't have to take PSC: Ranger to get 30 CL (which isn't much of a gain over ranger 26/fighter 4, because the feat is effectively free for the build, just need 4 spellcraft) and gets access to a powerful animal companion (if you take natural bond and epic animal companion, you'll need to spend spells to buff it, though). You lose 3-4 damage per shot (6-8 with manyshot) and 2 AB, generally limiting yourself to only fighting favored enemies as effectively.

In short, your choice generally hinges on whether you wanting to use and buff the animal companion or not and if you are mostly fighting your favored enemies. If you want to use the companion and will be fighting mostly your favored enemies (which generally requires you to choose favored enemies that are most common on the server), go ranger 30. If you don't want to use the companion and want have a bit more flexibility in what you fight no matter your favored enemies, ranger 26/fighter 4 might be a better choice.



For the crossbow vs longbow debate. They both have their merits, longbow generally outperforming crossbow against most server content, crossbow outperforming longbow against those high AC/DR targets.

With a crossbow, you do more damage per shot, but you will be limited to 3 attacks per round (4 if hasted, last attack if hasted is not a manyshot). Those three attacks will be at high ABs, you'll generally hit most targets with all attacks, so your damage will be pretty consistent. You'll need to invest at least two more feats than longbow to make it work, which can make you a bit feat starved as shown in zyztem's build (taking improved critical on an epic feat). You can find Rapid Reload on many crossbows on the server, so it's not specifically needed, but nice to fit into a build, as it allows for more flexibility in crossbows.
Fighting the few enemies with Deflect Arrow is a pain with a crossbow, as they effectively nullify 1/3~ of your damage, compared to 1/5~ of a longbowers damage. (not counting if you are trying to be mobile while attacking, in which a unhasted crossbow becomes pretty useless against a target with Deflect Arrow)
Fighting enemies with shields is also quite a bit tougher with crossbows than longbows, as shields allow a target to have a chance of parrying ranged attacks, which nullifies quite a bit more crossbow damage than longbow damage.
Keep in mind that crossbow sniper does not work with One Shot, so you'll only get around 50~ damage on a one shot with a crossbow, compared to 100~ with a longbow (both on a ranger).
Some form of haste is generally needed with a crossbow to perform well, whether through the Bracers of Blinding Strike (10 rounds per use, 2 uses/day, can have multiple) or the epic feat Blinding Speed (10 rounds per use, 4 uses/day, instantly activated). If you don't have haste, you will only get one attack in the first flurry, so most of your damage will be spread throughout the round, requiring you to hold still to do decent amounts of damage. If you are hasted, you get two attacks in the first flurry, allowing you to have some mobility while still doing decent amounts of damage.

With a longbow, you do less damage per shot, but you can get 7 attacks per round (8 if hasted, 4-5 attacks are not manyshots), which makes it scale better with any damage you can get (favored enemies bonuses, fighter levels, arrows, higher EB weapon, having a bard in the party, etc) as each shot gets the full damage bonus.
The AB on the later attacks will lower quite a bit more than crossbow (your lowest AB attack will be at -25 of your cap), but as a ranger (especially a ranger/fighter) you have a decent chance of hitting on all attacks against most of the server's monsters, especially if you can raise your AB through other ways (heroism scrolls, having a bard around).
Longbows have most of the damage front-loaded into the first flurry of the round, able to do all three manyshots on the first flurry, allowing you to do decent damage and then scurry about without losing too much of your damage. Compared to a crossbow, which either loses too much damage by attempting to be mobile or has to be hasted. Effectively, longbows are far more mobile than crossbows, and mobility on a ranger is very useful, especially indoors where you can't hips.

In short...
If you want to have an easier time leveling, do more damage against high AC/DR targets (generally bosses), hit just about every time and see those big damage numbers, go crossbow. (Crossbows are also far more stylish, Deathgrowl is kidding himself)
If you want to have a bit more flexibility, scale a bit better, perform a bit better against most content, have more mobility and not rely so much on haste, go longbow.

For longbows you want to invest a bit into strength, to raise the damage of each shot with Mighty.
For crossbows, you can generally pump dexterity to max, with a bit into strength for some damage with Mighty. (how does a crossbow even get mighty?)



Blindfight is not really needed on a BGTSCC ranger build, they get it through a level 1 spell called Embrace the Wild, and you only really need it against a very few specific enemies on the surface. I might suggest taking extend spell instead of blindfight in zyztem's build, as it
provides quite a bit more flexibility and utility.

Very informative. Thank you!