Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

WARNING/NOTE: This class can only cross class with the following: Arcane Scholar, Frost Mage, Pale Master, Red Wizard, Harper agent, Blood Magus, Sorcerer, Shadow Adept, Thaumaturgist or Wizard

One of the first things that I noticed was that Hierophant which is similar to Archmage but for diviners, can be cross-classed with anything. With the Practised Spellcaster bug fixed and a shift closer towards PnP, can this restriction be removed for Archmage?

Lore-wise, the class is not restricted. Elminster himself has Cleric, Fighter & Rogue levels along with Archmage levels

I feel that with mages needing a high casterlevel (what is it now, 27 or 28?), that Archmage can provide more build options. The spellpower abilities also cost spell slots (which Hierophant's does not).

Even if the comparison with Hierophant is left out, I believe that the Archmage class restriction is harsh. There is nothing to justify such restirctions. The PRCs prereqs ensure that no matter what other classes AM multiclasses with, it wil lalways be best suited for casters.

I agree with the exception of shadow adept, its a bit to powerful when mixed with AM and BM.

Ariella wrote:I agree with the exception of shadow adept, its a bit to powerful when mixed with AM and BM.

Is it more powerful than an Archmage/BM/Palemaster that you can do now? Those three classes you mentioned have 6prereq feats leaving little room for building. It will make very squishy characters

Nomster wrote:I feel that with mages needing a high casterlevel (what is it now, 27 or 28?)

I know I'm a bit late asking this but the reason a higher caster level is needed is only due to the dispel bug fix, correct? Instead of character level it takes caster level (as it should be). Doesn't a greater dispel max out at 35 to beat 11+ defender caster level? So CL 24 would be sufficient versus all but a higher level mords?

Dispel and greater dispel max is increased by 5 on the server so greater dispel can beat a DC up to 40 (20+d20). Therefore only full caster level 30 is immune to dispel (DC11 + CL30=41).

No wonder those full caster guys are so smug.

chad878262 wrote:Dispel and greater dispel max is increased by 5 on the server so greater dispel can beat a DC up to 40 (20+d20). Therefore only full caster level 30 is immune to dispel (DC11 + CL30=41).

Is it really CL 30...? I heard 27-28 from sources but was not sure which it was.

It's really 30. However, dispel mobs have been significantly reduced so CL 29 having 1 in 20 per buff of being dispelled isn't that harsh... 27 gets as bit more tough... 15% times 10 buffs is going to see 2 to 4 stripped (cuz NWN2 math...) But end of the day you are not immune to greater dispel without CL 30.

If you remove the multiclassing restrictions, you allow for any 4 lvl dip into a non-spellcasting Class/PrC build to still achieve a CL of 33. Higher if you have Blood Mage or Shadow Adept.

It was always my understanding that an Arch Mage receives there powers through a "pureness" of profession related to the Weave. And 4 dirty Rogue levels just muddy up the crystal waters.

I always thought Archmage was the pinnacle of one's studies, and Hierophant was the same equivalent of ones faith.

If a dip in a non arcane class would "muddy" an archmages studies then a dip in a non faith based class would cloud the cconnection between a hierophant and it's deity.

Im in favor of opening up archmage. As Nomster pointed out, realmslore has archmages from all walks of life

If a dip in a non arcane class would "muddy" an archmages studies then a dip in a non faith based class would cloud the cconnection between a hierophant and it's deity.

Which is probably why Hierophant requires 7th level spellcasting and seriously limits the ability to multi class with it.

Steve wrote:

If a dip in a non arcane class would "muddy" an archmages studies then a dip in a non faith based class would cloud the cconnection between a hierophant and it's deity.

Which is probably why Hierophant requires 7th level spellcasting and seriously limits the ability to multi class with it.

Seriously limits, but doesn't prevent it by any official ruling.

Edit, on another note, i know it's probably not in the 3.5 description or anything, but i just find it odd that a Hierophant doesn't require True Believer.

Well Arch Mage has limits too...but isn't really prohibited, is it?!

And btw...we shouldn't take Elminster as some benchmark, cause that NPC cheats and gets 5 classes!!!

(per 3.5E) Ftr1/Rog2/Clr9/Wiz24/Acm5

Steve wrote:Well Arch Mage has limits too...but isn't really prohibited, is it?!

Really? I thought the warning Nomster quoted in the OP meant it was prohibited to cross class with anything other than the classes listed. If we did, we'd get deleveled to the Nine hells.

Im talking about cross classing, what are you talking about?