Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

I'm wondering about this as of late.

Dark fantasy is typically about exploring darker themes like depression, fear, poverty, greed, lust etc. It's often aiming for something that's more realistic yet with a quite grim outlook.

I wonder how much of that is applicable to the sword coast, because after having read yet another forgotten realms novel I find that many descriptions of the place and its characters are more clearcut and one-dimensional than lovecraftian, greyhawk settings or many others like moorcock, warhammer, grimdark of horror fantasy. I've this feeling that FR in lore (specifically the sword coast) and our server with it are maybe lacking in these areas.

Medieval cities for example which fantasy like FR is largely based on was full of rampant poverty, misery, greed and so on., and trying to be a good character (like the ideal knight or a paladin in the FR universe) is really fighting an uphill battle. My feeling is that this is really not the case with the sword coast. It seems to be populated by a vast majority of such characters. I know that in lore its not quite realistic to go out of your way to heal every single character you meet, even if that's how people often portray their good characters on our server, but even so there seems to be less of a place for them.

See, for me being a good character, or even a paladin, is all about a struggle. A struggle against the world itself, trying to fix what can't be fixed yet still trying to make the best of it. However, if most people are like you it greatly diminishes the value of being good or to champion the cause of good. There is just barely anyone to help, and its ultimately a very safe choice which translates to unheroic.

Is the sword coast this happy land that it appears to be? Well, I'm asking

Just look at these boards. Does anyone appear happy?

FR's never really been dark fantasy. It's a high fantasy setting, so despite the feudal nature of its cities things tend to be rather positively-themed. That's not something I'm much of a fan of myself, but it's the way the setting is in my experience.

For my part I try to keep things darker in my own RP. Though yes, it is hard when everyone around you is a hero.

Karond wrote:
Is the sword coast this happy land that it appears to be? Well, I'm asking

There are plenty of Players pursuing a darker themed version of the Sword Coast. One that, as you state, is dealing with—or dealing out...—"depression, fear, poverty, greed, lust etc."

The question I have for you is: how much effort have you put into joining these groups/individuals, or starting something of your own?

And since we're on the subject, I'll just refer you the pages 5 & 7 of Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast.

"For years, the lands between Waterdeep and bustling Amn have been thought of as the Empty Lands, a vast, inconvenient stretch of wilderness folk venture into only to get from one place to another. Legends abound of grisly fates that befell unfortunate travelers at the hands of orcs, trolls, hobgoblins (and worse!) said to infest the area in veritable armies. In recent times, dark evil has arisen in ruined Dragonspear Castle, and the snakemen who inhabit the Serpent Hills are extending their patrols to menace folk far afield. As the merchant Falodel of Amn once put it, 'The only reason to set foot in the Coast lands is to get down from a caravan wagon that's going to make you a lot of coins—when it gets to someplace else.'"

"'[L]eagues upon leagues of lawless waste, home to pirates and outlaws who feast on those who must go north or south while depending on the Sea of Swords as their guide, keeping it in sight so as not to lose their way.'"

Karond wrote: ...after having read yet another forgotten realms novel...

I think this is where the problem stems from FR novels are... well... yeah.

Not saying FR is a "grimdark" setting, far from it. But I don't think that the novels paint a proper picture of the setting.

Personally I love this question.

The reasons are a bit two fold.

Having only been on the server for a short time now I was surprised to see how happy everyone was, people chatting and being mostly nice to one another, even elves to dwarves, humans to half orcs etc. I was a bit confused, I was wondering, where is all the hate and fear of one another and the obvious racism you would see in such a society.

The other fold is, I am usually the character who love stirring the pot, and making others hate as he does as my character is at the bottom of it all a hateful coward who blames everyone else for his alcoholism and failures, never himself.

But, saying that, this is a roleplay experience, most people enjoy just making friends, going on adventures together, they dont really have to think about their character needing to eat, live or be involved more so than that, most people probably dont even have a "job" or form of "intake" so it makes it hard to make it as realistic as a novel for example.

But you also got to remember it is a pg13 server, so you cant make it too dark, even in my forum stories/bio's I do not say swear words due to this fact, or atleast keep it to a very mimimum in gore and such.

So you got to balance it basically in my opinion on the whole depression, fear, povery, greed and especially lust front.

The main problem is that the things you kill and loot and get exp from are almost always evil.
For all non-evil NPC: Ask DM permission before doing anything

You can see there is very little incentive of being evil

Also, in general, people enjoy a gaming environment more if everyone else is nice and friendly, RP or not. Its just human nature.

Oh, there is evil here for sure.

It usually lurks beneath the surface, like some "good" toons are not actually good, just very manipulative.

Hidden evil is there, "open" evil, not so much.

Thids wrote:

Karond wrote: ...after having read yet another forgotten realms novel...

I think this is where the problem stems from FR novels are... well... yeah.

Not saying FR is a "grimdark" setting, far from it. But I don't think that the novels paint a proper picture of the setting.

^ this. I am reading a FR novel right now that includes a cleric of Lathander that is practically worthless against skeletons because he is traveling with elves and they have to be uber godly to appease the fanboys. The cleric kills one skeleton for every 10-20 each elf kills. It's not as if the cleric has trained explicitly to turn undeath or has a vested interest in fixing this or anything. . .

Ya so everything not written by Ed himself I take with a grain of salt.

Karond wrote:I'm wondering about this as of late.

You may want to check out Book of Abberations and see of Illithid reproduction works. ^_^.

That'll answer your question.

Honestly? The Forgotten Realms are just a framework for your own world building. The answer lies with you. Everyone here gets so hung up on whether something is canon for the setting that they forget that they forget the entire purpose for the campaign setting is to provide a framework upon which to build your own stories. They can be as dark or as vanilla as you want them to be, and absolutely nothing is set in stone. The novels tend towards the standard heroics because that's what draws a lot of readers, but that doesn't mean that we all have to follow suit. If you've ever looked at the FR campaign guide, it's deliberately vague about things outside of the cosmos, geography, and deities for a reason.

Te Sword Coast isn't as dark as it realistically should be. There's few plagues, revolts, and everyone seems to live in some form of pastoral bliss. Even though the source material directly states that the region is beset from armies of monstrous humanoids pillaging the wilds, you never actually see much of it.

This isn't really the fault of the server (or the players), although trying to maintain a pg13 environment doesn't help. Maybe this will change with the new Soubar environments, I personally want to make a few evil characters just to stir the pot. Maybe a priestess of Bhaal. Unfortunately you can't do much 'evil' without DM intervention, purely due to how NWN mechanics work.

One can do, act, initiate, carry out and succeed with Evil, right now, on this Server. The Teen rating neither promoted nor inhibits this.

The greatest roadblock to Evil Role-play is that few Players really want to do it, and even fewer Players want to react to it, take it seriously. As Karond points out in the OP, it seems weird to play a Good Character and not wish, as a Player, to have "conflict" in the World to address.

But what was also stated above is true: most Players are here to "hang out," like in a social setting. How often do you or anyone go to the bar or tavern and start "conflict" in real life?!?

The margin for playing Evil or dark themed fantasy, is there, but very small. It takes A LOT of work to make happen...well, not so much if you play stupid evil...but we know that lasts 2 seconds.

As an added note, the Evil Guilds shoot themselves in the foot just as much as anything, when it comes to being effective, or interesting to others (like new players). I personally have never had more difficulty working it out with evil toon Players, both as a Player and as a DM.

Speaking of DMs, their work is to support Players, just as much as run their own storylines. So if Evil Toon Players got their shit together and created RP, DMs would avail themselves to support the outcome of that. They are not gonna "make it happen" for the Evil to be Evil...but they can definitely support the "dark theme" issues and actions where appropriate.

The Sword Coast is a frontier setting. Sure, there are hard times. But the frontier also breeds strong folk. Which is what the Sword Coast is also known for. Poverty isn't like how things are in Amn and many other settled or cosmopolitan settings; With beggars and hunger rife in the lower classes.

On the Sword Coast there aren't that many people to beg from, so you have to look after yourself, or lie down and die in a puddle. There is plenty evil and danger of course. But its not as if there are cities and villages everywhere that monsters can pillage. Or that plague is everywhere. There's not enough population and contact-moments for that sort of thing.


Compared to a real-world medieval setting the Sword Coast is more like Scandinavia and Scotland, than like England, France, Germany, or Italy in the medieval periods. To me, at least.

If you're looking for dark places that are settled or even cosmopolitan then you don't have to look far : Zhentil Keep, Thay, Calimshan, Amn, Tethyr, Haalrua (they kill 'inferior' mages from poor bloodlines), etc... Most of these places even permit the practice of slavery. And that's just the top 6. There's plenty of grim evil places and peoples in the Forgotten Realms. More than there are good ones, I suspect.

Dark fantasy it is read the book Baldur's gate