Now that the CL bug has been fixed...

[The Whistler]

Could we revert the dispels caps back to their original values and remove spell breach or at least make it hurt divine spellcasters as much as it hurts arcanes ? Playing an arcane gish right now is the very definition of unfun.

[Blackman D]

dispels are being redone and several areas should already be updated to spawn fewer mobs with dispel

the suggestion to revert the cap was already suggested but i dont think anything was done about that yet

if areas seem to still spawn a lot of dispel mobs then post feedback in the other thread about a high number of dispel mobs in an area (http://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=50714) so it can get looked at

[The Whistler]

Reducing the amount of dispel mobs seems counter intuitive to me, especially when reverting the cap is such a simpler fix to the problem. I would like to hear if there's a change being planned for breaches too.

[mrm3ntalist]

Reverting the cap of dispels will beat the purpose of the dispel fix.

With a 25 Greater dispel cap, a caster can get away with 8 levels of no spell casting progression ( thats 30% of the build ) and still have undispelable buffs. It is a lot and if that was to happen, then there was no reason t go with the dispel fix and just let things as they were in the past.

A caster, sacrificing CL should have consequences. With the current cap it can get away with 4 levels. I think that is enough. Anything less and it will only favor most Pwerbuilds, such as FS24/Cleric3/Rogue3

[The Whistler]

Vanilla greater dispel was capped at 15 CL. A caster was considered safe at 25 CL; is that so bad a compromise ? Also, is 24FS/3Ro/3Cl a powerbuild ? That's news to me. You can achieve the same with 27FS/3Cl, except you lose 2 AC which isn't much of a deal anyway.

[Rhifox]

PnP Greater Dispel is +20. PnP Dispel is +10.

I can see knocking BG's dispel back down to +10, but not GDispel to 15.

[mrm3ntalist]

Vanilla greater dispel was capped at 15 CL. A caster was considered safe at 25 CL; is that so bad a compromise ? Also, is 24FS/3Ro/3Cl a powerbuild ? That's news to me. You can achieve the same with 27FS/3Cl, except you lose 2 AC which isn't much of a deal anyway.

It is a powerbuild because you dip to rogue for evasion/expose weakness. More power ( immunity to the reflex save spells and AC debuffs/Damge increase) with nothing to lose.
Other examples can be Sorcerer8/BG3/DS9/EK10 with fighter BAB and undispellable buffs. There are the alternatives with cleric/fighter/rogue in place of BG

Then there are the armored sorcerer/palemasters.

And of course the divine monk hybrids with the combination of Hierophant and a lower dispel cap, will end with undispelable buffs

Of course there are two sides to see a change but the way i see it, by reverting to the vanilla dispel caps, this change would have wrecked the umd builds while most powerbuilds are left untouched.

[LISA100595]

I also think the dispels should be reverted now that the changes to CL are in place for many of the same reasons listed here.

[The Whistler]

You get all that by going Auril/Istishia/Umberlee and taking the water domain. Sure, you can be more flexible with your deity as a rogue but nobody ever rolled a FS for 'rp'.

I've tried all possible variations of Sorc/BG gishes and they are all subpar to going pure strength. Giving autostills up for EDM ? Not a clever idea.

My armored dslayer/PM ended up with a 29 CL which is still within the 'somewhat safe' region. What is your point exactly here ?

UMD builds deserve to be crushed to dust. All powerbuilds you listed and (let me hazard a guess here) can list, can work around the dispel fix by sacrificing some superfluous ability like EW for example to get more CL. What really gets hurt here is the honest, working gish class.

[Steve]

Has anybody though of—or better yet, suggested within QC—to add Spellpower Feats as Epic Feat choices?

I can think of more than a handful of 22 – 24 CL builds that would be great fun to play with certain RP models in mind, but unfortunately, as things stand, they would get dispelled every time an Orc Shaman sneezed.

Not to mention their viability in PvP. I know that PvP is never used as an argument EXCEPT when a change or existing situation causes builds to wifflestomp in PvP. Then the nerf bat comes out right quick.

Personally, for some characters I wanted to make but realized there was no way to get beyond CL 23—and I simply never build below CL 25...and even that is now pathetic against the new mechanical status quo—I would definitely consider taking a SpellPower Feat in Epics in place of 1 or 2 Ability stat bumps.

[Rhifox]

Such feats do exist in PnP. Spell Girding. It is something to consider, I should think.

[sweetlikesplenda]

...but nobody ever rolled a FS for 'rp'.

Try again

[Bad Omens]

I also think the dispels should be reverted now that the changes to CL are in place for many of the same reasons listed here.

+1

[The Whistler]

...but nobody ever rolled a FS for 'rp'.

Try again

You know, I'd have an easier time respecting an honest powerbuilder who picks the class for its mechanical benefits, rather than somebody who picks the class to be the Jesus Christ of X deity.

But this discussion is somewhat OT.

[zyztem]

Epic feat that makes spells harder to dispel but no other benefit seems to be the best solution, that way, even cl30 chars can benefit from it.