Str dual wield VS Dex Dual wield

[Skyrizen]

what are the Pros and cons of Going Str based dual wield and Dex based?

Atm i am using a build where i can use str and int as dmg mods but besides Perfected dual wielding wat are the Pros and cons of Str based and Dex based

[Uncleboffo]

Sort of depends on what classes your going for? A dex Monk can get a boatload of attacks while Str based Rangers are really nice as well.

[V'rass]

Dex is better then Str in general. Sorry strength people but the truth hurts...

[Thorsson]

There is no hard and fast rule. Str has problems with AC; Dex has problems with Damage. Sneak attack Dexers (which sorts the damage) used to be best, not so sure now, with Spot mobs, Uncanny Dodge and UMD nerf.

Myself, I'm going for Str, with Wood Elf and 17 Dex for (hopefully) a Mithril Breastplate. You need extra AC though, like from IB, Tempest, Dervish.

The problem with Int builds is that you can't get Combat Insight until Epics, but in these days of full RCR I guess that's not a problem. They work on BGTSCC because you don't need so much AB.

[joleda]

TWF requires 15 DEX, ITWF requires 17 DEX, GTWF requires 19 DEX, and PTWF requires 25 DEX.

Only Ranger gets all 4 for free, which allows him to focus on STR. This would give you 6 off-hand attacks when your BAB is 26 or higher.

The Dread Pirate give TWF and ITWF for free. The pre-requisite for the class is Weapon Finesse, which has no DEX requirement. This would give you 2 off-hand attacks when your BAB is 6 or higher. Having this class would allow you to focus on STR.

The Tempest gives GTWF for free, as well as 2 bonus AB and 2 bonus AC. The prequisites are Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, and ITWF. Thus, your DEX must be at least 17.

Are there any other classes that give two-weapon fighting feats for free?

[Thorsson]

Are there any other classes that give two-weapon fighting feats for free?

No. But with a Str build you don't look to go more than GTWF anyway, and in 90+% of cases Tempest is a good pick, with GTWF, 2AB & 2AC in 5 levels.

The problem with Str Ranger is that he has to wear Light Armor, so you need decent Dex anyway. IMO you really want 17 Dex on a Str build. Note that you also need 17 Dex for ITWD.

[joleda]

Are there any other classes that give two-weapon fighting feats for free?

No. But with a Str build you don't look to go more than GTWF anyway, and in 90+% of cases Tempest is a good pick, with GTWF, 2AB & 2AC in 5 levels.

The problem with Str Ranger is that he has to wear Light Armor, so you need decent Dex anyway. IMO you really want 17 Dex on a Str build. Note that you also need 17 Dex for ITWD.

Good point. ITWD gives +2 AC, Tempest gives +2 AC, and Protective Ward gives +2 AC at Ranger level 24. This would be for Ranger 25 / Tempest 5 ? What is the caster level for such a build? How useful is the pet?

[matelener]

The bane of dual wielding builds are DR mobs, I think most of the epic bosses have 15/- dr and in some epic areas mobs have from 5/- to 10/- dr.

Quick breakdown for 12 fighter builds:

DEX route: 1d6 base + 8 fighter feats + 2 STR + 4 EB + 1d4 deadly defense = 20 MH/19 OH

STR route (+8 mod): 26 MH / 22 OH

So, STR route does around 100% more damage per hit against a 15 DR enemy, around 50% against 10 DR.

PTWF gives you higher expose weakness damage (by around 5 damage per stack) and 3 more lower AB OH attacks.

So far, STR is the winner but DEX will be better with more damage sources:

- Swashbuckler 5
- Dervish (big dmg boost against bosses, slashing weapon necessary)
- Weapon Master (best with kukris / rapiers)
- Dread Pirate
- Flame Weapon wand

Additional points worth noting:

- STR gives you carrying capacity (very useful for looting)
- STR can dual wield scimitars (with OTWF) and scimitars are cool
- DEX gives you very much needed reflex save
- DEX route requires 2 more feats: Weapon Finesse / PTWF

[Thorsson]

Good point. ITWD gives +2 AC, Tempest gives +2 AC, and Protective Ward gives +2 AC at Ranger level 24. This would be for Ranger 25 / Tempest 5 ? What is the caster level for such a build? How useful is the pet?

Caster level 22. Even with Practiced you're short. The same goes for the Pet. I guess as a Wood Elf you could take Ranger to 9 for Evasion, but I wouldn't go any higher personally. Even that makes it hard to get to F12. I'm with Matelener; I see F12 as almost a must have - the 8 crittable damage and 3 extra AB that this brings is hard to replicate any other way.

[Lockonnow]

[quoteFlame Weapon wand ][/quote] better with Flame Weapon potion if it work