Bardic lore

[AC81]

Any ideas when bardic lore is going to be returned to bards??? I understand that they won't get it for all lore categories now, but it seems appropriate for them to have +1 lore:arcana per bard level.

[Progressive-Psy]

Agreed.

[TarnishedSoul]

I'd rather see it applied as a separate skill point to put into any knowledge category.

[flipside43]

Or make several feats, one for each lore, like the one that was removed, and bards pick one at level 1. Perhaps a separate feat selection for it.

[Dagesh]

Oh, that'd be cool.

[chad878262]

Bardic lore is it's own skull outside of knowledge/lore that only really applies to things appropriate to DM events. I believe the DM Team asked that it be removed from lore rules so they could treat it separately, but remember it's all still a WIP...

[Duster47]

Bardic lore is it's own skull outside of knowledge/lore that only really applies to things appropriate to DM events. I believe the DM Team asked that it be removed from lore rules so they could treat it separately, but remember it's all still a WIP...

It is exactly this. It is a separate skill. It will get its own roll. Eventually. WIP = work in progress.

You are technically not missing out on anything, unless your bard fails to invest in Lore-Arcana, w.r.t. identifying things.

[Dagesh]

I can understand the idea behind that but does that mean there's knowledge outside of the skills listed? It would mean that all those knowledge skills aren't the total sum of possible knowledge for a PC. So in a way a Bard has his own knowledge skill set. If I were a DM I wouldn't even know when to ask for this kind of a roll.

[thids]

A bard may make a special bardic knowledge check with a bonus equal to his bard level + his Intelligence modifier to see whether he knows some relevant information about local notable people, legendary items, or noteworthy places. (If the bard has 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (history), he gains a +2 bonus on this check.)

A successful bardic knowledge check will not reveal the powers of a magic item but may give a hint as to its general function. A bard may not take 10 or take 20 on this check; this sort of knowledge is essentially random.

It's all very clear IMO.

[Dagesh]

So it's basically everything.

Local notable people = Knowledge Local
Legendary items = Knowledge Arcane (as played in this game)
Noteworthy Places = Knowledge Geography

All bolstered by synergy w/ knowledge history

I think I like this better. Bards have a chance at knowing anything.

[thids]

Its not everything, its specific parts of a few knowledge categories.

Notable places is hardly knowledge: geography as a whole. Same goes for the other two.

A +3 long sword is hardly a legendary item, also it specifically says that bardic knowledge does not reveal the actual powers of those items, just hints.

[Dagesh]

So specific parts of different knowledge categories which the DM decides is applicable to the situation. So it could potentially be anything based on the DMs ruling.

[thids]

Well, I'm not trying to dictate what DM's may or may not rule, each DM can likely have their own rulings and degrees of leeway when it comes to Knowledge skills. If Bardic lore can cover anything as you say, then certainly the same could be said for any other knowledge skill seeing as they cover much wider subjects. What I'm saying here is that the bardic lore, in D&D 3.5, surmises three very narrow and specific knowledge categories instead of one broad knowledge category (like the regular knowledge skills do).

[AC81]

Can't say I'd like that implementation of it - what about people who rarely get in events??? I feel like it would be better to allow a bard to choose which lore skill to increase upon levelling. Also, I feel like I'm the only player who actually took the spell Legend Lore ... can this spell be changed to boost all lore skills? Because currently, after the change, it does ... nothing.

[DM Golem]

Hello players,

The Team sincerely regrets not having posted the reasoning for this change to the Bardic Knowledge skill to bring it closer in line to PnP. The team perceived a disjunction between god-like proportions in the old Lore skill and, when combined with Bardic Lore, may/may not actually be in line with a character's RP skill (spent ranks) or knowledge focus, all of which are specifically applicable now.

Bardic knowledge is meant to be a special Knowledge check to recall stories/tales/legends about notable local people, legendary items or noteworthy places. This does not even apply to the identification of magical items but can give a hunch towards their magical function if successful. As such, the Team decided that for now the Bardic Knowledge skill would only be taken mechanically into consideration during roleplayed DM events where the situation specifically called for it.

Like any other skill and feat, however, the concept can be used to inform player RP, and a bard can legitimately use this skill as the basis for knowing stories, tales and legends about notable local people, legendary items or noteworthy places. It is just that the skill cannot be enforced against other players.

There is movement in the Development team to craft a specific Bardic Lore skill which will accrue with your bardic level which can be specifically rolled during RP/events and the like. This will render Bardic knowledge a mechanical skill like any other.

If you wish your bard to be trained in Arcana, then you must be prepared to spend your skill points in it.

Here is the guideline for how Bardic Knowledge works in PNP, which is how the DM team will treat it, and it forms a good guideline for how to RP it between players.

Bardic Knowledge
A bard may make a special bardic knowledge check with a bonus equal to his bard level + his Intelligence modifier to see whether he knows some relevant information about local notable people, legendary items, or noteworthy places. (If the bard has 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (history), he gains a +2 bonus on this check.)

A successful bardic knowledge check will not reveal the powers of a magic item but may give a hint as to its general function. A bard may not take 10 or take 20 on this check; this sort of knowledge is essentially random.

DC Type of Knowledge
10 Common, known by at least a substantial minority of the local population.
20 Uncommon but available, known by only a few people legends.
25 Obscure, known by few, hard to come by.
30 Extremely obscure, known by very few, possibly forgotten by most who once knew it, possibly known only by those who don’t understand the significance of the knowledge.

Sincerely,
DM Team