Rant for a True Role Play Experience.

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kkrazlite
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Rant for a True Role Play Experience.

Unread post by kkrazlite »

Damn I just watched all 3 movies of the hobbit. . .

Now that movie is how NWN2 should be like. . . So much lore and actual pros and cons towards beings a certain race and heritage and practice of magic. Now a-days you can be a grey orc hunting party in the Serpent Hills and ELVEN player would just run by with literally no rp or give a half azzed reason to walk by you because their more interested in getting to their daily epic chest of the day and slaying epic bosses for their chance at some epic loot that they'll just throw on alt of holding because they cant even use it. . . Which thoroughly and utterly silly.

So much potential that could be had but that's all been tainted. . .


Image
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This! Is what an actual battle of armies should look like!

Not some DM being lazy just spawning random enemies at a party of Players with no rhyme or reason. Enemies that just appear out of thin air like they were coated in some Futuristic Camouflage suit simply to satisfy to players need for. . . "Oh I want to kill more things and get more exp and rewards." Because apparently having a weapon with a VFX effect is the only way to show your character means something now-a-days. . . That or having some form of loot that is considered an heirloom to your character. . . BUT you cant even take two minutes of your time to give a decent back story to how you obtained such an item. NOPE! "Its just a sword i found off some orc corpse." - Really. . .

A Role playing game is about the experience and the role you play in the world. And DM Bloodlust did that all correctly as well as a great deal of other DM's from back in this servers prime. (DM Eydice, Head DM Maecius, DM Nilbog) All these DM's as well as a handful of others knew how to make even the smallest of enemies and events into a master piece of lore and legends both inside the game and here on the forums as another chapter to the story to read.

And don't go telling me that its impossible to make a full replica of a battle in BG because of its age and lack of mechanics and coding. Me and Blood lust worked together everyday to better increase the coding and AI control of NWN2 and we were damn good at it. We wrote up story lines, plots and plot twist as well as DICTIONARY FILLED TO THE BRIM of new idea's for lore, legends and ACTUAL entertaining monsters and villains to face along the way. Other then some make shift re-skinned version of yuan-ti and Wyrmthrax simply buffed to all hells to fit the power scaling of the Players who faced it.


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NOW THAT! Is how an army should look in BG. That right there is simply a preview of how much potential there is in NWN2 roleplay servers if a DM would just take the time and set it up correctly instead of "Going with the flow" and preparing scenes and area's for plots and lore that are simply filled to the brim with randomly placed enemies and land marks and just waiting to see how the players reacted. When instead you should be throwing in more effect and nostalgia making the area seem more alive and free spirited then letting the AI enemies just turn and attack the parties that are there without even a. . "The Orc raiding party turns to face the intruders of their lands newly claimed lands. . . Without even a second of breath they blow their rallying horns chanting and screeching as they prepared for battle."

NOPE!

You cant even get that simpe little detail in there before letting the AI attack the players. And again i'm not saying that non of the DM's do this and i'm not saying that non of the PC's do this either. But there are a lot who do not do it and who is to teach them if everyone just throws a blind eye at what they should and shouldn't be doing correctly.

Listen guys if we want the old BG back. Back to the time where there were actual plots and lore and satisfying story line such as the "Rise and Fall of Bazu the Lich". Then "We" need to do it. We need to make characters on this server that stand for a purpose. And show case to everyone old and new that true story line could still be done even without having a DM present to make it "official".

We need to stop this back and forth between "I want to be good and I want to be evil". You should develop your character and your plot to fit that alignment instead of making a new character that is built for killing and slaughtering both PC and NPC because you want to be useful if something like that were to occur then saying "Well my character is lawful good and your character is Chaotic Evil so we must do battle!". If you going to be a good guy then do that and have relevant back story and concept to why your that alignment. Same goes for being an evil PC do not just think seance your evil that inclines you towards all evil guilds and societies on the server simply because the population of evil toons is low compared to that of Neatral and Good. Both are hard to role to play in this day and age because no one knows how to play it right and the ones that do spend more time show casing how to play it right to their relevant guilds and friends other then the new players and even the old returning founding players we acquire on the server. Everyone is to caught up in "Making up" lore then going by the lore that was written in the first place.

All this RCRing and changing gods and lore about your characters that have so forth been so keen on their ways in the server is disgusting. You guys are so keen on trying to "Fit in" you don't even see that your just destroying all that lore and credit you had before. All these evil organization and armies in the server do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and you know what. . . You cant even blame the DM's on that one. Because you all just up and destroy them yourselves. Dark Hold, The Dead Crows, The Dark Coven, The Silver Sheild, BlackHand, The Inner Circle. Are all obsolete because you start up the guilds and get everything going. Then you just give it up half way after and all that role play and lore you made for the guilds are just thrown away without a word or relevant back story to why they just disappeared and disbanded.

You guys can do ahead and try to play this "Im a bad guy just perceived as a good guy" or "We are an evil organization simply planning and proceeding within the shadows." all you want. But in the real terms of things you guys are just scared to fess up and throw away the rp because the majority of the sever is good or neutral and would not dare stand within your presence unless you are caught in the act. You think being in a mercenary company and saying I do bad things makes you a neatral? You think throwing away you gods of wraith and ruin in exchange for revenge makes you good? You think making a power build simply to try to be unstoppable towards people who try to stop you from doing what ever you want in the server makes you evil? No it doesn't! There is a big difference between playing what is on your character sheet. And playing the character itself regardless of what you claim to be on your sheet of paper because every character and plot changes but that sheet of paper you wrote for your character will always be the same.

All i can say now is that we need to bring that old feeling back. We need people to be doing relevant rp in non DM run events and plots. We need to have ACTUAL presence of role play between Good and Evil and not ignore eachother's actions when one or the other is proceeding to do something that the other side would CLEARLY take offense to. We need to help each other to grow as a server then try to strive as individual player characters.

We need to. . .


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Calodan
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Re: Rant for a True Role Play Experience.

Unread post by Calodan »

I'll be your huckleberry..........
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Steve
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Re: Rant for a True Role Play Experience.

Unread post by Steve »

I think we'd see greater role-play if death had meaning on BGTSCC. It is easy to treat the Server cheaply, as well as role-play, when it is a given that a Toon will never die unless via OOC arsehattery, or willful Player-led decision.

Other than that, I'm down with da OP (P). And I would say that the majority of Players have put great effort into backstories, development, placement of their PCs into the context of the Server.

But one thing that Karond rightfully has brought up a number of times was his observation of a lack of Context, with a capital C. What is the flow of a major storyline from which Players may define their Characters, and how can that storyline uphold both a great passion behind the experience of Life and Death, of our beloved Characters.

I think both Players and DMs can work together to build this. But it does take a lot of effort...YUGE effort, I might add. And atm, most Players are simply trying to deal with the Big Update changes, and how that literally effects their experience of the Game.

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Re: Rant for a True Role Play Experience.

Unread post by AlwaysSummer Day »

Those movies did not stay true to the book at all. True piles of crap IMO.
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Re: Rant for a True Role Play Experience.

Unread post by JCVD1 »

AlwaysSummer Day wrote:Those movies did not stay true to the book at all. True piles of crap IMO.
ThaT's what you got from the post? :D
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Re: Rant for a True Role Play Experience.

Unread post by ragnarok1983 »

AlwaysSummer Day wrote:Those movies did not stay true to the book at all. True piles of crap IMO.
All stories...
... are made up.


Back on the topic: Players are numerous. DM's time/number is not. This server had a history of player-enacted storylines and player-run events that not only supplemented the RP but were the source of much of it.

If you have ideas and want to run an epic storyline, then run one as a player or become a DM. Pointing out shortcomings (perceived or real) is only the first step in solving a problem. Now go out and address it. Do things --- otherwise, we are just part of the problem.
Last edited by ragnarok1983 on Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Selande
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Re: Rant for a True Role Play Experience.

Unread post by Selande »

Two movies to build up to a dragon battle and then the dragon is killed by a random scrub character Legolas 2.0, fifteen minutes into the third movie.

That's a lot like how most boss NPCs are anyways. A few hours hype then they get butchered in 3 rounds by the swarm of lvl 30's.

I prefer a more subtle roleplay experience tbh. With less monsters and more... story. Which is exactly what I get from players.
(Though I love the DMs that donate their time and it's been a long while since I've been in an event I didn't enjoy)
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kkrazlite
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Re: Rant for a True Role Play Experience.

Unread post by kkrazlite »

This post is not about comparing and contrasting NWN2 and Lord of the Rings. . . I simply used that as a flavor tone for the topic.

This post is about bringing true RP into server. And dismissing all these acts of "Power Building" and non relevant plots and story lines that make absolutely no seance in the current game.

I'm trying throw it out there that people are just outright ignoring rp and concepts simply to make it easier on themselves for obtaining gear and loot and leveling up.

You know the other day i saw a party with both a Balor and an Angel in the same place. And they didn't even bother rping or explaining why that was. . . Just ran past me to get to the ice king. (I'm not going to give out names.) And that is one of the reason i made this post. People don't want to pick a side and when they do they tend to try to "Alter" their characters to join the side that is not under populated.
Last edited by kkrazlite on Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Selande
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Re: Rant for a True Role Play Experience.

Unread post by Selande »

I saw like 8 people screwing around casting spells in the Nexus the other day and I facepalmed and logged out.

Hard to get people to take the game seriously sometimes.

The roleplay I find in game is pretty solid though. Granted it's usually with players I already know and like to be around.
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Re: Rant for a True Role Play Experience.

Unread post by Maximvs »

Aside from a rule to make players read the few pages of lore related to their race-class-server setting, I don't see how to elevate the quality of RP.
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kkrazlite
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Re: Rant for a True Role Play Experience.

Unread post by kkrazlite »

Secondly i would personally love being a DM for BG. As i said before i worked with Blood Lust everyday in Developing monsters, plots, and coding for the server and we made an excellent team. (As you can see in the NWN2 version of the army preview picture.)

But I believe my chances of becoming one are slim to non. Iv'e had a lot of problems in terms with the DM's and their ruling with events and Server Rules in the past. I believe they see me more as a trouble maker then an actual player on the server. But that's my own fault for disagreeing with them and causing more trouble then its worth when i shouldn't have in the past.
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Re: Rant for a True Role Play Experience.

Unread post by metaquad4 »

Selande wrote:I saw like 8 people screwing around casting spells in the Nexus the other day and I facepalmed and logged out.

Hard to get people to take the game seriously sometimes.

The roleplay I find in game is pretty solid though. Granted it's usually with players I already know and like to be around.
The Nexus is OOC, and should not be considered a reflection of IC roleplay. RP doesn't happen in the nexus, it happens playerside. People "screw around" OOC all the time. Its fun. Casting spells in the nexus is (apparently) another issue, but I'm not sure how anyone could consider it a reflection of RP. The two are separate entities.

That whole issue of "RP with the ones you know" is also an issue, I think. I've met some good RPers, who are new players. But, a lot of people seem to have already gotten comfortable in their circles and refuse to come out of their shells. That leaves a whole lot of untapped RP in the air, and isn't exactly productive to the RP atmosphere. Plus (from my own personal experience) it creates a lot of stagnation, RPing with the same people over and over again. Eventually, people do run out of ideas, but some people just don't feel comfortable going out to RP with new people regardless.

Its probably a human phenomenon though, the same thing happens IRL from what I see of most people. A person meets a couple groups of people and unless shoved in the right direction by a force that is not of themselves, they don't really go out to meet more people.

To the OP:

Yes x 1000.

Personally, I think this server would flourish if PCs got a chance to participate in both sides of the conflict during metaplots, think Amn-Gate War. During this metaplot, I anticipate we will get to see some of that, given that it seems to be more PC-faction based and less NPC-faction based.
kkrazlite wrote:Secondly i would personally love being a DM for BG. As i said before i worked with Blood Lust everyday in Developing monsters, plots, and coding for the server and we made an excellent team. (As you can see in the NWN2 version of the army preview picture.)

But I believe my chances of becoming one are slim to non. Iv'e had a lot of problems in terms with the DM's and their ruling with events and Server Rules in the past. I believe they see me more as a trouble maker then an actual player on the server. But that's my own fault for disagreeing with them and causing more trouble then its worth when i shouldn't have in the past.
Try anyway. You won't get a yes until you ask first. What is there to lose?
Last edited by metaquad4 on Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rant for a True Role Play Experience.

Unread post by Endelyon »

@OP:
RPers gonna RP. Grinders gonna grind. Er'rybody gonna loot.

I could get behind your argument if it was just "people should try to focus more on RP and less on mechanics," but it's not, is it? It's maybe one good point wrapped in a big pile of hubris and misinformation. So instead of getting behind it, I'm going to pick it apart piecemeal.

You start out by shaming every DM except a handful. Well, I co-DMed a ton of events with Bloodlust myself, and while the setups were indeed quite epic, he was a far cry ahead of other DMs when it comes to "client and toolset expertise." On top of that, BL had sometimes up to 4-8 hours every day to spend in-game DMing. While BL's acclaim is well-deserved (I've seen quite a lot of positive feedback for him!), it's a bit unfair to expect the same level of event setup from other DMs that don't have as much free time or client skill.

Every active DM probably spent at least 5-10 hours a week on administrative tasks on the forums as well (5-10 being the low end, I know a few who likely did twice this or more). So by the time you put in your 5-20 hours of forum work, you're probably only down to a few windows of free time in which to actually log in and DM and run events because you have a job you have to wake up and go to the next day, and in some cases a family you have to worry about feeding. Shame on them for not quitting their jobs so they could have enough time to set up epic armies for you all day er'ryday.

Then you go on to call out a bunch of specific "evil" guilds (evil in quotes as at least one on your list was not even an evil guild). A couple of them are quite RP focused, and at least two have a concrete lore/canon reason they were disbanded or destroyed. In fact the only one the list that I agree disappeared suddenly/unexpectedly was the Inner Circle, and that's because their leader stopped playing NWN2. Probably, y'know, to focus on real life. The Zhentarim aren't even gone (Darkhold is a building, btw). And wasn't your entire point that "people should stop making up their own lore and start using the lore that already exists in the setting?" The Zhentarim are indeed a lore faction, in fact probably THE most prolific faction in the FR setting. This entire part of your post is just basically to take a dump on some players' RP. Do you think telling people they're bad RPers and they're doing it wrong is going to encourage them to want to roleplay with you more in a more immersive fashion?

Instead of a big rant about how everyone is doing everything wrong, why not take the same 20 or 30 minutes to write out some tips to actually help them improve? And keep in mind, what you enjoy is not what everybody enjoys, and it's a little conceited to demand everyone on the server conform to what is fun for you. I was here for the 2013 metaplot/Bazu storyline. From my perspective, it was not that exciting, and the ending was pretty weird and hard for most players (myself included) to understand. To this day all I can discern is that the players were able to defeat Bazu with "the power of love." That said, it was still a decently fun plot--but so are the ones that are being made now.

The grass is not greener on the other side. The fact is, you're reminiscing about the days when the server was "young" for you, and things felt more immersive and awe-inspiring. The game didn't change, you changed. The longer you play on a PW, the worse it gets. Things that felt magical start to feel mundane. For a long while you can sort of rekindle this flame by creating new characters that have different RP styles and social circles. Eventually, even the joy of that will dry up, and the setting will have nothing left to offer you.

I will agree with one thing you said, though: "A roleplaying game is about the experience and the role you play in the world."
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kkrazlite
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Re: Rant for a True Role Play Experience.

Unread post by kkrazlite »

I would have to agree to disagree on some of your points.

Firstly yes i would have to agree in the acts of DM jobs IRL and im-game. Yes i see your point DM's have lives they have things they could be doing aside from running an old game on an old server they they pretty much don't get paid for. Yes i see that they have lives that need to be tended to in the terms of actually living and supplying to their needs. But what i'm trying to point out is that they need to add more detail and flavor into their plots and events and allow us "The Players" the chance to alter and change them so that everyone feels involved rather then those "Select few" guilds and groups that happen to show up / be online to catch them. There are tons of new Guilds and Groups out there that are trying to form and have a place within the server and the plot. But without proper recognition they cant find that place. . . Because all the guilds and players who ARE all but already recognized are filling in those roles leaving those who are trying to build up their characters to do it themselves. And doing it themselves results in what i just explained. That being little to no rp or concept to their ideas and characters almost like their just playing this game to "Look at the Scry" and head towards who ever seems the closest to desperately scrounge for the little bit of rp they can before head to the next group. And another thing i mentioned is DM's need to set up their events with proper time. There have been far to many incidents to where a DM will set up an event and it will either make no seance towards the lore and plot of the story. "Oh let me just throw some monsters in this so people are satisfied." - Well if your going to do that at the very least give some relevant rp of the monsters approaching or rallying or being summoned or SOMETHING rather then just spawning them for the players to kill on a whim.

Secondly the part about the guilds i will stand by. I am not saying their rp and lore are obsolete or irrelevant i'm saying that these were guilds that had provided a backbone to the lore and roleplay towards the story line of BG. But now a-days i have yet to see any of those guilds do anything at all. . . Nothing on the forums nothing in game. And that brings me back to my first topic. There are guilds and players out there who are thirsting for their spot of relevance in the server and cannot get that because both the DM's and the players that are ALREADY relevant are working together and those new players and guilds are hindered because of it simply just running around find people on the scry and when they find them they just follow their scripts. "My name is so and so of blah blah blah i am part of blah guild and we do blah". Rather then slowly build up the lore and concepts for that such character and guild because they think that running over to the FAI campfire hotspot and shouting their name and what they do will make them relevant. At the very least its a start, but there should be more to it.
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Re: Rant for a True Role Play Experience.

Unread post by Flasmix »

kkrazlite wrote: Secondly the part about the guilds i will stand by. I am not saying their rp and lore are obsolete or irrelevant i'm saying that these were guilds that had provided a backbone to the lore and roleplay towards the story line of BG. But now a-days i have yet to see any of those guilds do anything at all. . . Nothing on the forums nothing in game. And that brings me back to my first topic. There are guilds and players out there who are thirsting for their spot of relevance in the server and cannot get that because both the DM's and the players that are ALREADY relevant are working together and those new players and guilds are hindered because of it simply just running around find people on the scry and when they find them they just follow their scripts. "My name is so and so of blah blah blah i am part of blah guild and we do blah". Rather then slowly build up the lore and concepts for that such character and guild because they think that running over to the FAI campfire hotspot and shouting their name and what they do will make them relevant. At the very least its a start, but there should be more to it.
I still do not understand why have a Focal and Non-Focal Guild section. It's basically like saying "Your guild is unimportant, so we're not really going to do much unless we get some pity going on."
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