Cleric of Selvetarm

[The Whistler]

Aka Selvetargtlin. Been trying to build one since last week but I feel like I'm hitting a brick wall. Here's my conundrum: He's gotta be a strength-based dualwielder; longsword in the main hand, morningstar in the OH. He's also gotta have a respectable CL >=25

Bonus points if he doesn't hit like a wet noodle and can hold his own against epic monsters (pit fiend not included but would certainly be a HUGE plus). I don't care about exp penalties and the like as long as the build is functional. Thanks in advance

[Steve]

Although Selvetarm seems to wield a morningstar and longsword simultaneously, does your PC actually have to do this at the same time?

[The Whistler]

Spiderswords (Selvetarm's specialty priests) are trained to fight with 2 weapons and eschew shields entirely. Sword&Mace is one of their favorite combinations according to demihuman deities.

[Steve]

A sword + mace is easier to build for?

But, there are options:

Cleric 22 / Fighter 8.

Cleric 20 / Dragonslayer 10

Cleric 17 / Bard 3 / Dread Pirate 7 (str based ITWF for free)

Cleric 17 Bard 3 / Storm Singer 10 ( CL 30 !!)

[The Whistler]

This doesn't look too bad. What exactly does toughness stand for ? I'm gonna go ahead and chalk it up as a mistake. Think I'll get divine spell power in its place and swap out 1 CL for Advanced divine spellpower.

[mrm3ntalist]

Cleric25/Tempest5 is a good alternative.

- You only need to reaise dex to 17 ( not difficult for a drow ) and can wear a mith FullPlate for Maximum AC.

- Tempest AB bonus stacks with Divine Power and the Defence bonus will help since you dont carry a shield.

BTW Hierophant does not need 17WIS. 16 + item is enough.

Hidden: show

[Maximvs]

It's tough. Drow means underdark ; underdark means a lot of spell resist. Meaning you either try to get maximum caster level or go full buff.

you can go with 2 different weapons if you want but you'll just be crap build wise. Using the same weapon in each hand won't make you less of a RPer. Maybe you should consider a favored soul instead of a cleric. Cleric isn't that good to multiclass. I would just do a 26 cleric 4 fighter to get all caster lvls and still smash things decently. 26 favored soul 4 fighter would probably be better, for what selvetarglins do anyways.

The thing is, clerics get powers in exchange for doing what their gods wants them to do. Selvetarm is arguably the most loyal of all the drow gods to Lolth. What would a selvetarglin do in Sshammath? He would probably guard Lolthites. Join a lolthite house or something. Also, in many drow towns, the Lolthites don't let Selvetarglins gain too much cleric powers. Those displaying lvl 7 or above cleric spells may very well be killed ( depending on the town's customs ), and sometimes, Selvetarm himself just doesn't grant spells above lvl 6 ( or something ), although I doubt that would happen in Sshammath, considering how weak Lolth's clergy is there. They'll let you cast these clerical lvl 9 spells and shut up, with a big fake smile on their faces.

If you wanna go the ultra traditional way, then you could make a build with cleric 11 or 12 and stuff in there a lot of warrior type levels. If I was a DM and you didn't help Lolthites in town, I'd probably remove your cleric spells after a while though.

[Storm Munin]

How about cleric24/warpriest3/tempest3?

ITWF w dex 17 (mithral breastplate aint bad)
High CL (possible to dump cleric levels for hierophant and more DC but less BAB I believe)
Ninth circle spells with +3 WIS item
BAB25 (meh)

Str 16 (End natural 23 unless you do epic str feats)
Dex17
Con10
Int10
Wis16
Cha10

Spider domain for spiderskin spell and some other fun.

Hard to be specific when all you claim is dualing with it.
Add more warpriest for BAB but loose CL.

[The Whistler]

-snip-

Selvetarm is only grudgingly beholden to Lolth. While he instructs his faithful to observe Lolthite rituals, he doesn't punish them for omitting to do so (source: demihuman deities). What would a selvetargtlin do in Sshamath ? That is a good question; he would probably be taking out his pent up frustration on any target that looked vulnerable enough. And that includes weak clerics of Lolth - anything you can destroy is not worth protecting in the first place.

Also I think you're confused about the level 7 thing. That refers to male Lolthite clergy (yeah, they exist) in certain cities that are not allowed to progress beyond that level. Selvetargtlin dogma and day-to-day activities are basically summed up by "git gud at fitin, do more fitin, die fitin". Nowhere does it say anything about protecting the yath. Ultimately, I see Selvetargtlin as autistic perfectionists that constantly strive to hone their fighting skills to a deadly edge.

As for going FS, that is a big no-no for me. I am against this class and all it stands for. The weapon choice was not made because I feel like I have to prove something; I like envisioning a character based on sourcebook descriptions and going off those when I create one. A morningstar dripping with venom and a longsword felt cool. It also meant I wouldn't have to spend a feat on martial prof as I already can use both weapons as a drow.

[Maximvs]

Yes and no... Look. Yes they say he hates lolth, but if you look at a more recent history than your demihuman deities, he guarded Lolth from Vhaerun during her silence. Of course Lolth allows rebellion as a way to weed out the weak, but that's just one of many things you can do under the almost limitless excuses the drow setting offers. They usually mostly guard Lolthite temples and clergy, train themselves and other drow warriors in battle and do the bidding of Lolth's clergy. That's in the 3.5 faith pantheon thing.

My point is, if you're a cleric, you're going political. You must affect your surroundings in a way your god wants. What would a selvertarglin do in Sshamath is a really odd question. You sound like you wanna go the rebellious way and not side with Lolth's church.

Would you really openly defy her as a selvertarglin and train Sshamath warriors or something? Would Selvetarm really allow such actions that would be obvious for all to know, which would reach Lolth's ear at some point? The drow setting is so complex and full of excuses that plenty would say one way or the other, I'm just dubious of what appears to be your openness in not helping the Yath. Selvetarm himself never openly defy Lolth.

[Maximvs]

Like... The clergy of Selvetarm is always working with Lolth's clergy. Well, not always, but usually. Some stuff happens from time to time, but usually, it's that. Cleric is, as written in the player's book, the only class that starts with a faction. Your church is the faction. Your job as a cleric, if you plan on staying in a town for long, is to contact your local church... exceptions may apply, but it's usually like that.

Who will you contact if you enter Sshamath? Or you can indeed remain anonymous too. Selvetarm won't remove your spells at this point. But you need to do your god's bidding. Example. You're a halfling cleric of Yondalla. You decide to wanter in some part of Faerun where no halflings are around, and you settle in. At some point, Yondalla will take back her blessings, because you're supposed to uphold her ideals. You're supposed to go where halflings are and care for them.

Selvetarm's clergy barely got any churches at all. They are part of Lolth's church. As a cleric, you should, generally speaking, obey your superior ( tons of exceptions may apply ) or seek to establish some kind of church-faith if you are the superior in the region ( or the only one or something ).

Now here's the thing : Selvetarm isn't just Lolth's grandson. He's also her consort ( eww ). In the demonweb pits, every gods got their little slice of hell. But Selvetarm, he lives with Lolth, in her metallic spider castle. They talk with each other all the time. And he obeys her all the time too. She encourages anyone to try to dethrone her, yes, but once a ploy is exposed, it won't work. If Ellistraee plots something, and Lolth finds out, the struggle might still continue. But with Selvetarm, once it's exposed, she just walks up to him and tell him to stop and it's done. I remember reading stuff about her telling him to not give too powerful spells to his clergy and he did as asked, although I admit, that's very far in my memory, which can be buggy at times. Can't find the source either... so yeah.

What do you think would happen if it was known in Sshamath that a selvetarglin was shunning Lolth's temple? Lolth would hear of it at some point. And then... bam. Selvetarm shuns you because you didn't hide your rebellious plot and now he gotta keep the face to his spidery consort of a wife-grandmom.

What would fit the best is if you joined Lolth' church and did whatever dirty rebellious deeds when nobody's looking. I admit that gods aren't always looking at everyone all the time and they're busy with hundreds of thousands of worshippers so the process could take months, or years, but at some point, I believe you would lose your spells, if you don't hide your rebellion and not repent.

[Tsidkenu]

You could also go something like Cleric 14 / Divine Champion 6/ Hierophant 10.

War domain gets to Weapon Focus to qualify for DC. I'm not certain if BGTSCC lets you pick Two-weapon fighting feats as bonus choices for DC. I'm also not sure if Extend Spell counts as a qualifying Metamagic feat for Hierophant. If not, take Quicken Spell instead of Extend, and take Extend as a bonus Hierophant feat in epics.

With PSC and Spellpower III from hierophant, it will have a CL of 31. I was trying to figure out how to throw maybe 3 levels of Warpriest in there as well but the build is a bit too feat intensive to spare Combat Casting and Able Learner. It might be possible to take Improved Two Weapon Defense in epics, alongside Armor Skin to get as much AC as possible for a dual-wielding cleric.

[Moltrazahn]

How about...

Cleric 15/ Tempest 5/ Herophant 10

Cleric Domains:
War (Weapon prof: Longsword)
Spider (Use poison)

Stats: End: Buffed:
Str: 16--22--28 (divine power)
Dex: 16--20--22 (animalistic power)
Con: 10--10--14 (bears end)
Int: 14--14
Wis: 16--16--19 (+3 wis item req)
Cha: 10--10

CL: 29. You can boost or do otherwise via Herophant.
Bab: 23. (unbuffed)
Ab: around 30-31 (unbuffed)
AC: (49 buffed longtime-52 shorttime with recitation)


Dont have time to go into all details but could be solid id think.

[Tsidkenu]

War Domain will actually grant Weap. Prof. Morningstar (Selvetarm's Deity Weapon according to NWN2, even though in FR lore he uses both a longsword and a morningstar).

[The Whistler]

Thank you for your input, everyone. Decided ima go 21cl/6ranger/3tempest with EDM for some extra oomph. I think that's probably as good as it gets damage-wise given my absurd specifications.