Area effect damage seems to work on etherals.

[TheLier]

Not sure if intended or not, but this is the case.

It is strange tho, becuse nothing seems to imply this, and a bit odd lorewise too.

In my opinion this either should be implied or if it is not intended it should be fixed.

[Syracuse]

There's actually a questions for DMs thread regarding this. http://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=51568

Hope this helps ya!

[TheLier]

There's actually a questions for DMs thread regarding this. http://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=51568

Hope this helps ya!

Not really, there was no final resolution there.

[Flasmix]

I believe the ruling is that 'Ethereal' is not actually Ethereal but more of an 'Improved Sanctuary'. Which is why Etherealness was changed to 'Greater Sanctuary' but provides the same effect as before and the same as 'Ethereal Jaunt'.

I tend to agree that it's cheap, but there's no way around it. I mean, A warrior with Whirlwind can still follow you around and use 'whirlwind' which is technically, attacking you but using an exploit to bypass the 'Sanctuary' effect. It won't be punished though.

[TheLier]

I believe the ruling is that 'Ethereal' is not actually Ethereal but more of an 'Improved Sanctuary'. Which is why Etherealness was changed to 'Greater Sanctuary' but provides the same effect as before and the same as 'Ethereal Jaunt'.

I tend to agree that it's cheap, but there's no way around it. I mean, A warrior with Whirlwind can still follow you around and use 'whirlwind' which is technically, attacking you but using an exploit to bypass the 'Sanctuary' effect. It won't be punished though.

Why not? It is an exploit afterall.

Anyways, in that case, the spell description should be changed ASAP. Becuse all information should be available, in my honest opinion.

[Maecius]

It would be punished, at least in Flasmix's example, but it probably won't be actively policed.

I agree that the spell description could use an update, at least to take out mentions of etherealness if it mentions it.

Can you post this suggestion in brief in here: http://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=19665&start=450

Maybe with a link back to this thread? Otherwise this might get rolled off the front page before an open dev has time to invest in it.

[Tantive]

Is it mechanicly difficult to make it have you dissappear though, with exception with true seeing. It would make metagaming it more difficult for aoe anyway.

[Truthiness]

Sanctuary effects don't actually prevent a target from being attacked or effected by area of effect stuff, just prevents them from being directly attacked.

Hidden: show

Sanctuary
(Player's Handbook v.3.5, p. 274)

Abjuration
Level: Cleric 1, Healer 1, Fatemaker 1, Death Master 1, Jester 1, Savant 1 (Divine), Protection 1,
Components: V, S, DF,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: No

Any opponent attempting to strike or otherwise directly attack the warded creature, even with a targeted spell, must attempt a Will save.
If the save succeeds, the opponent can attack normally and is unaffected by that casting of the spell.
If the save fails, the opponent can't follow through with the attack, that part of its action is lost, and it can't directly attack the warded creature for the duration of the spell.
Those not attempting to attack the subject remain unaffected.
This spell does not prevent the warded creature from being attacked or affected by area or effect spells.
The subject cannot attack without breaking the spell but may use nonattack spells or otherwise act.
This allows a warded cleric to heal wounds, for example, or to cast a bless spell, perform an augury, summon creatures, and so on.

Greater Sanctuary is supposedly just Sanctuary but with no will save attached.

Which means following around a character in sanctuary using area of effect abilities/spells is a viable strategy.

Ethereal is another matter, they can only be affected by Force Effects.

Hidden: show

Ethereal Jaunt
(Player's Handbook v.3.5, p. 227)

Transmutation
Level: Jester 6, Cleric 7, Sorcerer 7, Wizard 7, Beguiler 7, Wu Jen 7, Sha'ir 7, Death Master 7, Apostle of Peace 7, Greensinger Initiate 7,
Components: V, S,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level (D)

You become ethereal, along with your equipment. For the duration of the spell, you are in a place called the Ethereal Plane, which overlaps the normal, physical, Material Plane. When the spell expires, you return to material existence.

An ethereal creature is invisible, insubstantial, and capable of moving in any direction, even up or down, albeit at half normal speed. As an insubstantial creature, you can move through solid objects, including living creatures. An ethereal creature can see and hear on the Material Plane, but everything looks gray and ephemeral. Sight and hearing onto the Material Plane are limited to 60 feet. Force effects (such as magic missile and wall of force) and abjurations affect an ethereal creature normally. Their effects extend onto the Ethereal Plane from the Material Plane, but not vice versa. An ethereal creature can't attack material creatures, and spells you cast while ethereal affect only other ethereal things. Certain material creatures or objects have attacks or effects that work on the Ethereal Plane (such as a basilisk's gaze attack). Treat other ethereal creatures and ethereal objects as if they were material.

If you end the spell and become material while inside a material object (such as a solid wall), you are shunted off to the nearest open space and take 1d6 points of damage per 5 feet that you so travel.

This is all assuming we are following pnp, though. DMs might rule differently.

[V'rass]

Area effects will usually target anyone regardless of protections...

[Blame The Rogue]

how would someone with no spellcraft know what ward is cast?

what if the ward was already up before the interaction?

[Flasmix]

The problem with your example Truthiness comes down to intent. Let's take two classes, warrior and wizard.

Warrior-
1) Opponent casts greater sanctuary.
2) Knowing he can't target the opponent directly, be begins to whirlwind attack with the intent to get around the spell.
What exactly is he doing? He's using the ability with the intent to hit him... unless you're suggesting the warrior is thinking "I'm just going to spin here and if you get hit it's your own fault!"

Wizard-
1) Opponent casts greater sanctuary.
2) Knowing he can't target his opponent, the wizard begins hurling fireballs where the opponent is standing, knowing it will get around the spell.

Same concern as above with intent unless the wizard suddenly hates the grass, how does this give him a right to attack?

Now if the opponent had a friend who was the fireball target and it hit the sanctuary guy, fair game.

[Truthiness]

The wording only seems to indicate it preventing direct attacks and "strikes".

"Any opponent attempting to strike or otherwise directly attack the warded creature, even with a targeted spell, must attempt a Will save."

I don't think intent actually matters with the spell. The wizard could aim his spell at the blade of grass with the intent of harming the sanctuaried creature, and I think it would work.

[AC81]

Mechanically, I like how AoE attacks can hurt Santuaried opponents. I hate seeing people use Sanctuary to buff into God-mode. I usually start throwing perfected fire and acid flasks nearby to give them something to think about. I don't see this as anymore unfair than someone using Sanctuary to give them time to make themselves invincible. You wizards and favoured souls can't have it ALL your own way ...

[TheLier]

The big problem is, that it is named etheralness, not sanctuary. And those spells are very different. This is why I asked it to be changed.

[Flasmix]

Hm... From how it's written, you're right Truthiness.

Seems a shame that the big difference between a Level 1 spell and Level 9 Spell is merely there's no will save involved now.

To be perfectly honest, I would be happy if 'Greater Sanctuary/Etherealness' was changed so that nothing can hurt the user at all but in exchange, nobody can buff themselves to Godliness beneath it. If under effect of the spell and you cast ANY spell at all, it wears off.