Svirfneblin Bard / Shadowdancer / Cavestalker

[Steve]

Yeah, it's...unusual.

But the idea got into my mind, and tossed around with a buddy. I put it together here:

http://nwn2db.com/build/?245582

I'm wondering if there are any Ranged Feats that are more necessary for this build, than Luck of Heroes or Stealthy, the 2 Feats I could switch out. Any suggestions?

[Storm Munin]

Well, it looks solid.

If you want to you could toss in 10 levels of stormsinger in there by stealing a few skill points off UMD.
Flashiness would come at a price of the higher bard songs before song of heroism though.

[Lockonnow]

you build many char Steve

[Steve]

If you want to you could toss in 10 levels of stormsinger in there

Yeah, it did cross my mind. I really like that PrC. But...Stormsinger really slays with a high CHA build. That is, if you really want the benefits of Storm of Vengeance to PWN about everything.

And unfortunately, taking SS would also lose the Build 20 skill points by the end. That would be hard to let go off, for me, at least.

[Thorsson]

You're missing Point Blank Shot, as well as Rapid Shot, Manyshot, IRS & Rapid Reload. Not sure which of those you can cover off with items.

[Storm Munin]

Rapid Reload are on a few heavy xbows.

[Steve]

Rapid Reload are on a few heavy xbows.

Possibly also Point Blank Shot (or maybe found only on Slings).

There is also this: Belted Quiver of Supreme Skill (Belt, Dexterity +3, Rapid Reload, Improved Critical: Heavy and Light Crossbow).

You're missing Point Blank Shot, as well as Rapid Shot, Manyshot, IRS & Rapid Reload. Not sure which of those you can cover off with items.

T-man, besides the PBS use, which is kinda nice to have, what is the build missing without using the others? And, if an item could be found with Rapid Reload, I'd still get 4 attacks per round using haste, right?

[Kauaiian]

You're missing Point Blank Shot, as well as Rapid Shot, Manyshot, IRS & Rapid Reload. Not sure which of those you can cover off with items.

T-man, besides the PBS use, which is kinda nice to have, what is the build missing without using the others? And, if an item could be found with Rapid Reload, I'd still get 4 attacks per round using haste, right?

I really like the build! Thanks Steve! I may move some skills around to get more Diplomacy (something I think I'll need down there) but I like the combination of bard (for the arcane RP aspect and not being so...non magical) and cavestalker (for the UD tunnel dwelling aspect). And the fact that it's a crossbower just puts the icing on the cake for me Not to mention it's a unique build.

I think Ill swap out LoH for Able Learner and use Point Blank Shot in Able's learners place. I do want to wait until the above quoted is answered before moving any more feats though.

One question, the dex is okay or should it be higher for crossbow sniper/mastery?

Thanks again!

[Thorsson]

T-man, besides the PBS use, which is kinda nice to have, what is the build missing without using the others? And, if an item could be found with Rapid Reload, I'd still get 4 attacks per round using haste, right?

Wrong. You lose 1 attack without Rapid Shot. And Manyshot doubles your damage. These are not minor omissions.

P.S. More Dex is always good. My Crossbow Bard has 25.

[Kauaiian]

T-man, besides the PBS use, which is kinda nice to have, what is the build missing without using the others? And, if an item could be found with Rapid Reload, I'd still get 4 attacks per round using haste, right?

Wrong. You lose 1 attack without Rapid Shot. And Manyshot doubles your damage. These are not minor omissions.

P.S. More Dex is always good. My Crossbow Bard has 25.

hmmm..okay. How important is HIPs in a build like this? I see many threads stating a bard doesn't even need hips for a crossbower?

It would lessen the Cavestalker RP a bit I guess (IMO) so without HIPS should one even bother with cavestalker? hmmm

EDIT: Blasted Svirfs and their negative four charisma

[Steve]

Rapid Reload:

Taking Rapid Reload also opens up the use of the feat Rapid Shot with all crossbows. Rapid Shot can add another attack per round, bringing the total number of bolts fired per round to three. Crossbows are not useful once a character has more than three attacks per round. As a result, crossbow is a poor choice of weapon in combat and Rapid Reload is a waste of feat.

Also, it should be noted that the two / three attacks performed are made at the highest two / three attack bonuses. This means that you are potentially saving ammunition fighting high-AC targets as the fourth to sixth attacks have lower chances to hit.

Rapid Shot:

A character with this feat gains an extra attack per round with a ranged weapon (excluding crossbows). When a Rapid Shot is attempted, the extra attack is made at the character's highest base attack bonus, but all attacks within the round suffer a -2 penalty.

So how does one lose an attack?

[Thorsson]

Base is 1 attack
Rapid Reload adds an attack
Rapid Shot adds an attack (providing you have RR)
Haste adds an attack.

Capisce?

[Steve]

Base is 1 attack
Rapid Reload adds an attack
Rapid Shot adds an attack (providing you have RR)
Haste adds an attack.

Capisce?

That's good news. On the wiki, there is the implication that if the PC gets 3+ attacks per round, they'll be getting 3 attack (4 with haste). Which is not true, then. Bad wiki, bad.

[Thorsson]

How important is HIPs in a build like this? I see many threads stating a bard doesn't even need hips for a crossbower?

It would lessen the Cavestalker RP a bit I guess (IMO) so without HIPS should one even bother with cavestalker? hmmm

EDIT: Blasted Svirfs and their negative four charisma

With Bard I wouldn't bother with HiPS myself. The alternative is to go something like F8+/Asn8+/X/Y which gets HiPS, lots of damage and plenty of Feats, but misses out on the Bard goodies. I've played both and they both work very well.