Paladin's Durations

[Akroma666]

Never thought I would say this.. but.. Paladin's suck.. no wonder no one wants to play a pure 30 paladin anymore.
Problem: Spell duraitons
Suggestion: Double them

Tier 3 and 4 spells are the problem areas I think, but I would suggest doubling the duration of the key paladin spells from 1 round/level to 2 round/level. Spells like: Holy Sword, Angel Skin,
Blessing of Bahumut, Blessing of the Righteous, Deafening Clang, Draconic Might, Energized Shield, Lesser Energized Shield, Flame of Faith, Lawful Sword, Righteous Fury,
Strategic Charge, Weapon of the Deity, Zeal, and Lesser Aura of Cold.

[Nyeleni]

Paladins suck? No way. If you want to solo the dracolich in the Vault of the Dead it's one of the best ways to do it.

And if it can do that, you can build very powerful pure paladins.

[Blackman D]

a lot of builds with the gear can solo the draco

with no gear tho about any thats good against undead and can heal can still solo the draco

also, pretty sure paladins already have increased durations and full caster level when they would normally only have half

[Maximvs]

Yo. According to Pnp, rangers and paladins only have half caster level. The full caster lvl provided by all servers already grant double duration. You want quadruple duration now?

[thids]

level 30 pure paladins by no means suck, they are extremely well balanced. Their spellbook has by far some of the strongest buffs in game, which is offset by their durations. I would propose making the durations of 2 spells longer though:

The one which gives 2 sacred (dodge?) ac (something something beard, I forget the exact name). The duration is 2 rounds/level I think, I'd put it to a minute per level.

Blessing of Bahamut, which gives 10DR. I can't remember the exact duration but I'd double it.

Those two would be really useful and allow pure paladins a wider range of optimal builds, other than board and sword which they are limited to now.

[Rasael]

You can already double them: with Extend Spell.

The real issue you are running into is that you probably feel like you can't justify taking that feat.
And I suspect you think you have too few spell slots.

Having to prioritize and assign spell slots is part of the class. It means planning ahead and strategizing. Which is very difficult, just as with Wizards and (caster) Clerics. And extend spell sounds like it fits your playstyle because you want longer durations.

The other posters are correct about casterlevel progression. It has already been doubled on BGTSCC.
The spell selection has also been vastly increased. I'd say doubled but I think it may have more than doubled.


Content wise I do not recall any pending changes for the Paladin.
We do have a number of kits in development.

[Tsidkenu]

Except most of the spells listed cannot be extended, being 4th level paladin spells. They don't get 5th level slots for the +1 metamagic level of extended magic! It's like asking a wizard to extend Shades or Shadow Simulacrum: it can't be done because they don't have 10th level spell slots (unlike P&P!)

[Blackman D]

well you cant say they have 10th level slots in pnp either bc the 10th level spell slots are for epic spells only

[mrm3ntalist]

I think a lot of the reason a lot if not all of the remaining pure paladin build paladin characters went from like 30 paladin to just a 5 level dip was because of the constant tweaking of the class's spells. And it's not even comparable to other classes, such characters can only do combat with those spells. If your main class features are being constantly changed you end up getting annoyed and decide it's not worth the trouble. Hence why some legacy paladin characters like Arkaine are now some weird ass man at arms/divine champ with just a dip of paladin. OOBI is another example that comes to mind.

Certainly something for us QCers to keep in mind.

Constant tweaking? Wasnt only the Holy sword cahnged to not stay on the weapon after its duration expires? Was there something else?

As Rasael has pointed out, the use of the extend spell can help. Silverbeard ( the spell thids mentioned) for example lasts 6mins for a CL30 Paladin. That is 12mins extended, more than enough for when it is needed. However a couple of lvl4 spells could move down to 3rd level to allow the use of extend metamagic.

More spell slots could help. Giving even one more spell slot per level can really help paladins.

[Maximvs]

Meh. Asking for more power, but not it's drawbacks.

You're not supposed to go back to paladin once you multiclass. You're supposed to give 10 % of all your riches to your local church.

[Akroma666]

I could agree with the more spell slots and bumping a few spells down for extend spell.. I just feel like right now caster wise, its lacking.

Maybe its because I'm playing 5e for PnP but the spell system for paladins is super short lived.. And extend spell won't save you because you can't justify the commitment and give up one of your tier 3 or 4 spell slots. If the class got 1 extra slot per level it would be worth it.. Specially if it got a 5th level slot for a single extend spell.

Rasael, what about making an epic feat for extra slots? They are already feat starved, so it would be a commitment.

[MopKnight]

The 5e paladin is vastly superior to the 3.5e paladin. Far better designed, its spells make sense, the concentration mechanic means pure casters are far weaker than martially built casters and it has charisma based casting.

You're not supposed to go back to paladin once you multiclass. You're supposed to give 10 % of all your riches to your local church.

Sure. Enforce this. Watch every non-pure paladin and every EDM user other than blackguards and pure paladins fade out. I'd watch with immense amusement. The only reason I don't play a pure paladin (I have 4 levels of warrior) is because my paladin ISN'T a pure paladin. She arrived to the call late.

Mine also gives close to 100% of everything away.

[Maximvs]

You're not supposed to go back to paladin once you multiclass. You're supposed to give 10 % of all your riches to your local church.

Sure. Enforce this. Watch every non-pure paladin and every EDM user other than blackguards and pure paladins fade out. I'd watch with immense amusement.

Considering the player base is like 85 % ultra holy good, it would just bring some balance. There's like 1 paladin order per 2 zones or something now. I call them BG's milestones.

In fact, it's expected from most churches that everyone pays 10 % of your riches. It's just that if paladins and clerics don't do it, they might lose their divine powers too.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

In fact, it's expected from most churches that everyone pays 10 % of your riches. It's just that if paladins and clerics don't do it, they might lose their divine powers too.

A lack of tithing doesn't mean one loses one's favor with their God, but it does constitute small focused political issue with the temple they serve; their prowess undeterred.

[Selande]

Yo. According to Pnp, rangers and paladins only have half caster level. The full caster lvl provided by all servers already grant double duration. You want quadruple duration now?

60 CL duration spells at lvl 30 paladin
Extended to 120 CL durations with metamagic.