Banned builds

[WhatsInTheBox]

I couldn't find any specifically banned things other than bear warrior can't be taken with druid levels. Any others? Like the infamous Weapon master not being allowed to be combined with frenzied berserker?

[xLegionx]

I heard that favored soul and hierophant don't go together which sux.

[fearknight2003]

I heard that favored soul and hierophant don't go together which sux.

It kinda makes sense, though.

[Rhifox]

No Monk+Druid.

All builds must have at least 3 level in every intended class by 20 (cannot enter into any new classes after 20, no 1 level or 2 level dips).

Clerics must select the appropriate domains for their chosen god.

Other details that could affect builds are here.

[WhatsInTheBox]

thanks folks

[Boddynock]

Edit: Deleted, correction no longer needed.

[Rhifox]

Yeah I realized my mistake and just edited it, sorry! Wasn't thinking clearly.

[Karond]

I heard that favored soul and hierophant don't go together which sux.

They should, try it out. It's not a very good class for the favored soul though to pick. It's more of a cleric or druid class, as it focuses on offensive spellcasting.

[Calodan]

All builds must have at least 1 level in every intended class by 20 (cannot enter into any new classes after 20).

All builds must have at least 3 levels in every intended class by 30 (no 1 level or 2 level dips).

Clerics must select the appropriate domains for their chosen god.

Other details that could affect builds are here.

Wait....wha? It is 3b20 not 3b30 here. That means you MUST have 3 levels of every intended class by level 20 not 30 or has it suddenly changed?

[Karond]

It has not changed. 3b20.

[Rhifox]

Wait....wha? It is 3b20 not 3b30 here. That means you MUST have 3 levels of every intended class by level 20 not 30 or has it suddenly changed?

It's not, I edited my post because I was dumb and mispoke. Ignore what I said.

[Thorsson]

I heard that favored soul and hierophant don't go together which sux.

They should, try it out. It's not a very good class for the favored soul though to pick. It's more of a cleric or druid class, as it focuses on offensive spellcasting.

You keep perpetuating this nonsense Karond. The reason why it works for melee builds is that you can boost AB while still keeping up your CL.

Favored Souls don't really get so much benefit TBH, because they should be taking 20 levels in FS anyway, but Clerics have no great reason to take more levels than they need to meet any PrC requirements. Putting it simply, CL22/F8 will suffer from low CL (26 max), but Cl14/Hi6/F8 can get CL29. Arguably Hierophant is actually of more use to melee builds...

[Karond]

I heard that favored soul and hierophant don't go together which sux.

They should, try it out. It's not a very good class for the favored soul though to pick. It's more of a cleric or druid class, as it focuses on offensive spellcasting.

You keep perpetuating this nonsense Karond. The reason why it works for melee builds is that you can boost AB while still keeping up your CL.

Favored Souls don't really get so much benefit TBH, because they should be taking 20 levels in FS anyway, but Clerics have no great reason to take more levels than they need to meet any PrC requirements. Putting it simply, CL22/F8 will suffer from low CL (26 max), but Cl14/Hi6/F8 can get CL29. Arguably Hierophant is actually of more use to melee builds...

Hardly. If you read more carefully, you would see that I say it "focuses on spellcasting". Which it does. Spellpower boosts DCs. More metamagic boost spellcasting, as does most of the bonus feats. I don't say its not worth it on melee builds, but it is decidedly worse than other combinations. All they get is CL.

The build you propose is worse than a simple 26 cleric/4 fighter. You get 2 less epic feats, but some can be made up from fighter. Still, 14 C/ 6 HP/ 8 F doesn't get 29 CL. It gets 27 (14 cleric + 6 hierophant +3 spellpower feats +4 practiced spellcaster). So you lose vital CL as well. Most melee clerics can get what they require feat wise as it is, so the extra pre-epic feats doesn't amount to too much. Indeed, the trade-off seems worse off than the humble 26 C/ 4 F or pretty much most Favored Souls. It can work, like in a "Simian would approve of this build"-kind of way, but it is a sub-par choice.

The nonsense part seems to be that melee builds benefit *more* than casters do, from a caster-specific class no less. That will be the day eh?

[Thorsson]

My mistake was simply making it 28 levels. It should be Cl16/Hi6/F8, which is CL29.

And I didn't say melee builds were stronger, just that they benefited more. Think about it.

[mrm3ntalist]

And I didn't say melee builds were stronger, just that they benefited more. Think about it.

Meleers benefited from Hierophant more than DC casters? Not even close...

Hierophant gave a great boost to Casters. it gave
- The only way to get 32CL/+1DC
- 150 damage from harm on a succesful save, 300 on a failed. No metamagic needed
- Runes

You compare all these to a couple extra CL that meleers can get? Even Turner Clerics get more than meleers.