Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

As a long time player of a sneak, and a lover of the rogue-based style of play in general, I have to say that there are a few in-game features that I find to be completely redundant, and others that are outright frustratingly broken. First and foremost:

The Pick-pocket script.

The main problem with this script I find is this: even when NPC's cannot mechanically detect the pick-pocketer, they are still able to detect the SoH attempt, and thus the script triggers the nearby NPC's to call for the guards. This happens regardless of what race the NPC is(... at least, dogs, wolves, and other animals used to call for guards. Not sure now), or where the attempt is made. While I can somewhat appreciate how this script works in civilized areas, it's immersion breaking and meta-gamey as heck when it triggers within a dungeon. To make matters worse, the script also gives a pop-up window with an option for player characters to call for the guards... even when said player characters are facing the opposite direction and also cannot not detect the pick-pocketer. I have even witnessed this script generate an auto-response of "Guards!" from player characters in the same manner that it triggers NPC's to respond. In any case, if anyone in a pick-pocketing scenario should be able to detect a pick-pocketing attempt and call for the guards, it should probably only be the victim.

Aside from all of that, and after repeated testing, I would estimate that 25 - 50% of pick-pocket attempts made result in a non-result. And by that I mean to say: the combat log shows the sleight of hand roll, and then... nothing. No message to say the target had no gold, and no message to say any gold was stolen.

At this point I don't even know if this script is worth working on, but if it has any uses at all, I believe that the various NPC guards in cities/settlement should be the only ones enabled with it. Ideally speaking, I would like to see this script get tossed in the rubbish bin altogether.

Poisons.

Currently, applying poisons to weapons is not functioning at all. When they are functional, however, the practical use of poisons has been made(at least as far as the life of a sneak is concerned) rather pointless due to the fact that applying them to a weapon breaks stealth. This is... really aggravating, and silly, IMHO. As Steve pointed out in the link above, a character is able to use heal kits by the dozen without breaking stealth. When you're down to 10 HP, using a pile of heal kits should be the equivalent of full field triage, complete with applying splints, poultices, and head to toe bandages. This obviously shouldn't be possible from stealth. Why then should wiping a small blade in a poison soaked cloth or dabbing a vial over a mace or gloves reveal a hidden character? I would humbly recommend that this should be the opposite, as I would gladly trade the ability to stealthily turn myself into a bandage mummy for the ability to use a small vial of poison while remaining hidden.

And, lastly... opening chests breaking stealth.

This really isn't a big one for me, but I thought I'd bring it up considering how the new looting system has eradicated the possibility of sneaks ninja-looting dungeons ahead of others. Truthfully, I'm more interested in hearing others opinions on this one and hearing the rationale as to why this feature might still be necessary. From an RP standpoint... well, some players play rogues to be sneaky and steal things, and I think it would be counter-intuitive for any rogue to yank a chest wide open, and loudly enough, to reveal themselves every time they finish quietly and delicately picking that lock. (Come to think of it... doesn't opening chests break invisibility as well? I have troubles with that one too, TBH)

I realize there are a lot of things in the "needs to be addressed" queue that require attention, but if at some point these things could be looked at I think it would alleviate a small part of the frustrations one might experience playing a rogue'ish-type.

Thoughts?

Non-mage classes in general need a bump, and you bring up some good discussion topics Snarfy. Will wait and see what others think about these items or if any others are brought up and, if necessary will link a thread in QC forum.

While I can back the thought of poisons not breaking stealth I have doubts simply because it's something of a hostile action. I suspect heal kits don't break stealth for the same reason, to give a stealthed character a better chance of survival. But I agree that it's worth looking over, like your other suggestions.

I was in an event once where a PC picked another PC's pocket (at least I think it was another PC), guards were called and suddenly I was a suspect because I stood the closest to the NPC that had called the guards. Rather silly and not very in-character.

And opening chests does break invisibility, which I personally have found very annoying.

First, can we the Players just get a response from Staff on whether poisons can be fixed to an actual working state? That seems to just be a major issue at the moment.

As for everything else put on the OP by SnarfSnarf, it would give more if each point was enacted/changed. But...

It can be held that to be in stealth, the Character must concentrate. If the Character divided their concentration, then maybe, falling out of stealth MAKES SENSE. But then, using a heal kit should also break stealth. As well, imho, Heal Kits should also NOT be useable in Combat whatsoever. Only potions: because a potion could be used with one hand, where I imagine a Heal Kit needs two.

At least with Ombra's Poison system, applied poison should remain for enough attacks/rounds that it is feasible to apply, go into stealth, then attack. But that is just kinda shitty for the Player, and makes Poisons lower on the FUNability scale.

Steve wrote:First, can we the Players just get a response from Staff on whether poisons can be fixed to an actual working state? That seems to just be a major issue at the moment.

A fix has already been submitted. Waiting for the next update

mrm3ntalist wrote:

Steve wrote:First, can we the Players just get a response from Staff on whether poisons can be fixed to an actual working state? That seems to just be a major issue at the moment.

A fix has already been submitted. Waiting for the next update

Now THAT is the kinda news We like to read in digital print!

Steve wrote:

mrm3ntalist wrote:

Steve wrote:First, can we the Players just get a response from Staff on whether poisons can be fixed to an actual working state? That seems to just be a major issue at the moment.

A fix has already been submitted. Waiting for the next update

Now THAT is the kinda news We like to read in digital print!

Good, now get in game and trade me that armor .

Steve wrote:It can be held that to be in stealth, the Character must concentrate. If the Character divided their concentration, then maybe, falling out of stealth MAKES SENSE. But then, using a heal kit should also break stealth. As well, imho, Heal Kits should also NOT be useable in Combat whatsoever. Only potions: because a potion could be used with one hand, where I imagine a Heal Kit needs two.

The reason I think using poisons shouldn't drop a character out of stealth is twofold: Firstly, from an RP sense, a character who is trained in the use of poisons(a la the "use poison" feat), such as assassins, would likely have the application of poisons to weapons down to a science. I mean... it would take a pretty incompetent hired killer to reveal themselves right before poisoning their weapon to administer the killing blow. Secondly, the mechanical aspect of applying a poison is really cumbersome, particularly where the loss of stealth is concerned, in comparison to using a heal kit or drinking a potion... both of which can be done with a single hot bar button(plus a mouse click on self for kits).

Steve wrote:At least with Ombra's Poison system, applied poison should remain for enough attacks/rounds that it is feasible to apply, go into stealth, then attack. But that is just kinda (#2) for the Player, and makes Poisons lower on the FUNability scale.

Exactly. I'm all for a challenge, but trying to utilize poisons is really intensive. Basically you have to => find optimal range from target => open inventory => locate the appropriate poison for the target => double click poison => click on weapon(*stealth breaks here*) => cross your fingers that you haven't been spotted while standing there with your pants down for 6 seconds => Re-HiPS => Stab.

Thanks to this set up, I literally NEVER have the opportunity to use poisons, partly because of the rarity of situations in which they can be used, but also because the breaking of stealth can be disastrous. If you could just hot bar a poison and have it auto-apply to your primary weapon it might make the loss of stealth manageable, but TBH I would prefer to do it the long way and have it not break stealth.

As I understand the tech talk it isn't possible to make poison application not break stealth because it's a custom feat. We are discussing alternatives, like giving poisons a long duration.

So...

Snarfy wrote:The Pick-pocket script.

The main problem with this script I find is this: even when NPC's cannot mechanically detect the pick-pocketer, they are still able to detect the SoH attempt, and thus the script triggers the nearby NPC's to call for the guards.

The funny thing about this screenshot is... the character in question who cried "Thief!" was no where near mine, and actually 2 zones away. The other player and I, after much confusion, discovered that an invisible clone of him(those glorious things floating around everywhere) was, in actuality, what cried out, and not his character. ...

Have I mentioned that I loathe this script? (and those invisible clones now too)

*Edit* PS. I'm pretty sure it's lunge and pommel strike that spawn the clones, by the way. Whatever the case... yeesh.

Poisons I never use as a rogue. Not worth taking three assassin for (as I feel that's über evil class anyways.)). Also doesn't Sean worth it. A bit of extra dance for a few rounds? Doesn't make sense on a DPS level.

Stealth breaking when open a chest. I have mix feelings. I rather it break stealth just to prevent abuse. there is suspect old lore about thieves being such masters they could steal loot before people saw it. 2nd ed. Would love to see bashing break items. Or make some more chests that can only be picked. Better yet can we get real thieves tools?

I would love the stealth thing and kiting bug fixed. Right now I can get whole swarms of spawns to follow me around the map as long as hips in front for them once. They won't stop till I stop moving and they catch up to me. If I zig zag. They will follow in a zig zag. It is kinda funny but an issue.


I avoid pick pocket skill. Was told it was broken. I have ranks for DM events only.

I rather it break stealth just to prevent abuse.

Abuse of what? All chests generate loot for the specific PC now. So the abuse of getting chests ahead of people in dungeons no longer exists. If a rogue can sneak a dungeon for the loot is that not what they are supposed to do? I agree stealth being broke because you open a chest is not okay. It is their niche. Just like traps would be if they could set epic traps for monsters but that was done away with since traps were used to kill low level people all too often. There was some griefing back in the day on that. There are so many things that rogues get shafted on.

Mallore wrote:Poisons I never use as a rogue. Not worth taking three assassin for (as I feel that's über evil class anyways.)).

It's absolutely worth it.... or would be, if poisons worked properly that is(or at all, yay bugs). Your character know any wizards they hate? DC 28 fort save poison that does 2d4 damage to int sound good? Yeah, thought so ... we're talking high DC poisons that ruin any and all stats, some of which would be extremely useful in events. Too bad you have to drop your pants and paint a bullseye on your ass to use them!

I would love the stealth thing and kiting bug fixed.

This has gotten worse in the last month or two. Monsters have always followed after a character hides. But before, it was only the goblins north of Beregost that would continue to attack you for about 3 or 4 seconds after you hips'd, now it's happening in every zone with monsters.

I avoid pick pocket skill. Was told it was broken. I have ranks for DM events only.

PP works just fine. Unless you consider only ever being able to pilfer, at most, 40 or 50 gold per attempt being broken. What makes PP worthless is a script that metas your character 50% of the time, and only rewards you on roughly one-third to one half of your attempts. Honestly, I dont even know why a skill that was scarcely taken by any players, and one that offered only paltry gains to boot, was deserving of a whole script. Maybe it's because rogues are so awesomely OP!

Calodan wrote:

I rather it break stealth just to prevent abuse.

Abuse of what? All chests generate loot for the specific PC now. So the abuse of getting chests ahead of people in dungeons no longer exists. If a rogue can sneak a dungeon for the loot is that not what they are supposed to do? I agree stealth being broke because you open a chest is not okay. It is their niche. Just like traps would be if they could set epic traps for monsters but that was done away with since traps were used to kill low level people all too often. There was some griefing back in the day on that. There are so many things that rogues get shafted on.

You took the words out of my mouth. Little wonder why the server now seemingly enjoys so little players building rogue-heavy characters. Hmmmm....

Calodan wrote:

I rather it break stealth just to prevent abuse.

Abuse of what? All chests generate loot for the specific PC now. So the abuse of getting chests ahead of people in dungeons no longer exists. If a rogue can sneak a dungeon for the loot is that not what they are supposed to do? I agree stealth being broke because you open a chest is not okay. It is their niche. Just like traps would be if they could set epic traps for monsters but that was done away with since traps were used to kill low level people all too often. There was some griefing back in the day on that. There are so many things that rogues get shafted on.

Primary abuse is grief. I could sit next to a chest stealthed. Wait for you to open the chest then click it and take your loot. It's not hard to do. But as stealth beaks. You see me.

I suppose I was thinking ninja looting is bad. You should have to kill some of the monsters. But that maybe old school nwn1 in me.

Rogue life is hard.

Reasons you do not see rogues often.

1. The starter level area is undead. You lose.
2. High spot monsters later on. Some reason monsters have 50 spot yet 0 spell craft.
3. Way to much has sneak immunity. Almost every mid level dungeon has something you can't hurt. Who wants that? No fun
4. Saves suck. You just get hammered
5. No one says we need a rogue. You can bash chests and traps don't threaten or damage people with buffs.
6. Gear is wonky. You have to carry two sets. Lame. Plus your rp sets.
7. Lack of prestige classes. Just don't feel there is cool roguey options
8. Gear dependent class. Gear doesn't exist for its needs.
9. Rp issue (but I'm not gonna say it out loud)
10. List goes on.



Though I love my character. .

You know what would be awesome. Bonus feets to replace the duplicate feats rogues always pick up form their other prestige classes. Like I have evasion twice. I have uncanny dodge twice. And so on.