Cleave/Great Cleave

[Wyatt]

I can't tell if the problem is with the range detection of these feats or what but many times I am not given a great cleave attack after I kill something and another monster is in range. I've tested it with monsters behind my character as well as in the front 180 degrees and it doesn't seem to make a difference. At first I thought it might be only on mobs that have "reach" but it seems to happen even when I do not have to move at all to reach the next thing attacking me. Also I notice that on occasion I get the "Great Cleave : hit" message but it does no damage.

[Theodore01]

Seventh Sister: I've experienced a bug with the Cleave feat.
The feat often doesn't trigger anymore and sometimes it triggers and hits but does not deal damage.
Up until I reached level 16 it worked just fine. I have cleave and great cleave.
At level 16 I got my fourth attack which give me two attacks in the first flurry.
And from what I've seen I suspect that when I kill something with the second attack in the first flurry the cleave doesn't trigger.
Is this a know bug?
From the search I did I could see that some have had problems when facing larger creatures but this also happends against orcs and gnolls where there was no problem a level ago.
I would be grateful for any insights on this.

tenshiwashi3: I'm also experiencing trouble with cleave. Half the time it doesn't proc, and the other half it "cleaves" the enemy that I just killed. Overall, cleave works for me correctly about 1 out of 20 times, so it's pretty useless right now.

Is it possible, that the server takes to long to register that the target is dead and so the cleave (or circlekick) often hits an already dead target again ?
(I dont think, i ever encountered that in a single player game.)

[Wyatt]

That's odd. I just hit level 16 as well and started having this problem. Must be something to it.

[NegInfinity]

That's odd. I just hit level 16 as well and started having this problem. Must be something to it.

Actually you get 4th attack at level 16. With Full BAB class.

For testing purpopses I'd recommend using rat swarms in kobold dungeons. In the middle of northern part, there are couple of places where the game spawns bunch of rats at once that try to encircle your character. Perfect place for testing cleave/greater cleave.

[Calodan]

This happens with all Trolls here. There is a known bug where if you kill a monster in the first volley of attacks Cleave will not activate either. Maybe some one from QC can explain it better but this is one of those things that is broken and makes Melee less useful on the server.

[Stonebar]

With things the size of Trolls they can also be a hair out of range of cleave attack even though they can attack you. It can be hard to tell if you're close enough to each of them.

[Blackman D]

trolls are a pain with cleave because of the fire/acid damage needed as well, even if you have flame weapon or normal fire/acid on the weapon it tends to mess up cleave

and then there is the creature size vs weapon reach issue, particularly large creatures may take up space that exceeds your reach so cleave will constantly fail to trigger even tho you are hitting one that seems to be the same distance

[Calodan]

trolls are a pain with cleave because of the fire/acid damage needed as well, even if you have flame weapon or normal fire/acid on the weapon it tends to mess up cleave

and then there is the creature size vs weapon reach issue, particularly large creatures may take up space that exceeds your reach so cleave will constantly fail to trigger even tho you are hitting one that seems to be the same distance

If it could be done is there a way to give cleave reach? Is there a way to fix this? If not oh wellz. Just asking because I think it is one of the most awesome feats ever really.

[Wyatt]

That's odd. I just hit level 16 as well and started having this problem. Must be something to it.

Actually you get 4th attack at level 16. With Full BAB class.

For testing purpopses I'd recommend using rat swarms in kobold dungeons. In the middle of northern part, there are couple of places where the game spawns bunch of rats at once that try to encircle your character. Perfect place for testing cleave/greater cleave.

I don't know what this is supposed to test. It works sometimes. From what I can tell it appears mostly with large monster models even when they are in attack range.

[Blackman D]

thats the reach issue

[Sputnik]

There is an ability that Tempest gets, I believe. I may be mistaken on the class, but I know the ability is out there. Anyways, it extends the reach of one's whirlwind attack.
Perhaps something similar could be done with the cleave line to adress the reach issue?

[Eclypticon]

There is an ability that Tempest gets, I believe. I may be mistaken on the class, but I know the ability is out there. Anyways, it extends the reach of one's whirlwind attack.
Perhaps something similar could be done with the cleave line to address the reach issue?

Many of the old feats are hardcoded likely requiring a custom feat swap. I think the best we could do is replace all the cleave feats with a better range if it was deemed appropriate. Cleave, great cleave, and maybe supreme cleave would all need replacements. These feats are strong starting out, but are not very useful once you start reaching the high end levels.

If we did this, I'd suggest changing the cleave line to a mode.

[Calodan]

If we did this, I'd suggest changing the cleave line to a mode.

What would this accomplish? Further gimping of melee classes? They are supposed to be martially a bad ass. It is the only way for them to compete even remotely on the server with magic builds. I think it should just be fixed. No gimping. Fix it.