Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Hello everyone,

Been wracking my brain lately on the subject question, and I would be very interested in hearing some thoughts from more experienced RPers and players. NWN2 and BGTSCC are my only D&D experiences, other than novels.

So the question "What makes a good arcane diviner?"

Are they DC Wizards? Are they auto still gishes? Are they INT based gishes?
Wise? Ominous? Fumbling around?
Crystal ball toting or star gazer type?
Blood seer? Deep diviner? Blind Oracle?
Arcane trickster with a focus in divining to locate trinkets?

Unfortunately, NWN2 is quite limited in class choices but RP niches are infinite (for the most part). I am interested in both RP ideas and build ideas.

This is more of a think tank than anything else. Just looking for a bit of inspiration if anyone has the free second or two. What sort of fun (or not so much fun) have you had with diviners?

Edit: I do understand it may not be the strongest arcane school to focus in mechanically.

Number 1 is to consider what Divine spells are actually available, and how often/in what context, you're PC will be using them, or even where—if at all—they will be useful.

As well, there is a difference between Divination School (arcane) and the Power (divine magic). Maybe you want a little bit of both?

Divination, as you said isn't a very strong school... To my knowledge there are very few spells in divination that have DC, though perhaps scrying would be more difficult to spot, making it better for spying on other PC's.

To your question about build options, I imagine that much like any other wizard they can be just about anything, depending on what classes they mix together. For the aforementioned scrying Arcane Trickster would make sense, but there is nothing to say a diviner can't be a gish (premonition is a staple of the arcane gish after all). My guess is that they might be averse to illusion spells, since many of their abilities go right through illusion, but that isn't to say all diviner's would shun or pick that school as their opposition school. Especially for gishes mixing divination, transmutation and illusion is a big part of the gishes power.

An interesting concept would be to mix diviner with conjuration spells, so you can scry an area and then send summons in to attack without even risking invisibility where an enemy might have blindsight, see invisibility or true sight up... Thaumaturge would be a neat PRC to mix in for something like this concept as well.

If you're interested in crafting RP, a diviner might mix Master Alchemist for a type of witch character who uses divination mixed with brewing to tell fortunes, sell love potions, etc.

When it comes to selecting a wizard school, from an RP perspective there are numerous ways you could mix and match various schools and PRC's for the concept, but as you said, mechanically there is no real advantage to picking divination, though for your specialization it really matters little, since the only real importance of the choice is which opposition school you select, but I almost certainly would consider it a waste for anything, saving RP to pick Spell Focus: Divination.

chambordini wrote:My wizard used to do some divining, fortune telling with props and whatnot, even though he was a gnome so more inclined to illusion magic. I actually treated it as if he was performing more sort of a scam, it was more in line with an illusionist, like a con artist. And because you can't actually 'prophetize' what will happen in a non scripted multiplayer environment.

So what you do is basically like real life astrology or horoscope or card reading, be perceptive (so yeah some high wisdom might be appropriate), ask your victims for information, and just pull very generic claims from previously arranged sources of information (the prop, cards, orb, knowledge of symbols). Also rituals are good to create ambiance, basically the habit of doing the very same actions you would often think of doing, but in a peculiar way, a twist.
Above all your character should charge for his services. If someone is willing to waste loot-earned coin for the RP services at least they will attempt to take the RP seriously.

Oddly enough, my intended PC is a gnome. I thought it an oxymoron myself since they rely on illusion so much but I like the perspective you put it on it. As well, thank you for the tips on player interaction. I can imagine it takes collaboration on both sides to make any meaningful sort of player divination happen.

Steve wrote:Number 1 is to consider what Divine spells are actually available, and how often/in what context, you're PC will be using them, or even where—if at all—they will be useful.

As well, there is a difference between Divination School (arcane) and the Power (divine magic). Maybe you want a little bit of both?

Thats very true, and something I did look at. Most, if not all, are situational and strictly for RP (which I don't mind), I just need to have a Plan B for both RP and survivability.

I was asking strictly for Divination School (arcane), as I think RPing divination with the gods would be a little godmodding.

However, with the addition of Anthilar's bane, I thought of an extremely watered down 'Truename' RP type, focusing on the Power Words and that sort of thing. Truenamers are way too potent and NWN2 doesnt have the infrastructure to support it, but a watered down version I think might be kind of fun.

chad878262 wrote: For the aforementioned scrying Arcane Trickster would make sense, but there is nothing to say a diviner can't be a gish (premonition is a staple of the arcane gish after all). My guess is that they might be averse to illusion spells, since many of their abilities go right through illusion, but that isn't to say all diviner's would shun or pick that school as their opposition school. Especially for gishes, mixing divination, transmutation and illusion is a big part of the gishes power.

First, thank you for the great response Chad. Almost the same line of thinking as myself as far as class mix goes.

chad878262 wrote:An interesting concept would be to mix diviner with conjuration spells, so you can scry an area and then send summons in to attack without even risking invisibility where an enemy might have blindsight, see invisibility or true sight up... Thaumaturge would be a neat PRC to mix in for something like this concept as well.

The Thaumaturge class actually makes for great RP with divination. I believe there is another P&P spell called Contact Other Plane or some such. It could be a great way to symbolize such a divination. Getting his information from the outer planes. A great mixing of the two. But with the SF and GSF: Conjuration requirement, wouldn't he feel more as a Conjurer than Diviner?

If you're interested in crafting RP, a diviner might mix Master Alchemist for a type of witch character who uses divination mixed with brewing to tell fortunes, sell love potions, etc.

Hmmm...never thought of Master Alchemist. Very interesting.

chad878262 wrote:When it comes to selecting a wizard school, from an RP perspective there are numerous ways you could mix and match various schools and PRC's for the concept, but as you said, mechanically there is no real advantage to picking divination, though for your specialization it really matters little, since the only real importance of the choice is which opposition school you select, but I almost certainly would consider it a waste for anything, saving RP to pick Spell Focus: Divination.

chambordini wrote:New rasael spells http://bgtscc.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Divination

I love the great additions Rasael created, and I am wondering if it's worth taking the Spell Focus line for it. For a Gish, probably not. But for a caster..hmm maybe?

Armored Gish goes well with the Power Word line since it doesn't have any somatic components, just verbal (which also goes well with the Truenamer RP). Since I want to RP a gnome, a mix with Bard and Stormsinger could only enhance that RP I think. Getting Auto still could be RP'd as learning the Truenames of his spells?

Long time diviner player here. I personally went the stargazer/astrologer route, evidenced by not only 5 IG RP books on the subject but many months worth of contributions to The Baldur's Gate Herald while it was in circulation.

Mechanically, divination has several powerful spells now - Scrying, Greater Scrying, Hastalhorn's Foreshadowing, Battle Precognition & Foresight. The last of these has its duration determined by your spellcasting DC and you get a +3 round bonus per spell focus Divination feat. That is why Aeili actually has Greater Spell Focus Divination.

And the amount of times I've RPed writing up someone's astrological birth chart (which I actually did using FR ephemeris tools) and it actually really meaning something to that character RPly has astounded me!

Tsidkenu wrote:Long time diviner player here. I personally went the stargazer/astrologer route, evidenced by not only 5 IG RP books on the subject but many months worth of contributions to The Baldur's Gate Herald while it was in circulation.

Mechanically, divination has several powerful spells now - Scrying, Greater Scrying, Hastalhorn's Foreshadowing, Battle Precognition & Foresight. The last of these has its duration determined by your spellcasting DC and you get a +3 round bonus per spell focus Divination feat. That is why Aeili actually has Greater Spell Focus Divination.

And the amount of times I've RPed writing up someone's astrological birth chart (which I actually did using FR ephemeris tools) and it actually really meaning something to that character RPly has astounded me!

Thank you so much for responding! I was referred to Aeili a couple of times through tells but could not remember the player forum name. I think Anthilar's Bane would benefit from from Spell Focus Divination as well. It's almost a 'must' if I intend to go the Power Words route, if I'm correct.

Can I ask if you've ever RP'd the spying/intel gathering benefit of a diviner, in a DM event I mean? It could be fun if asked to do it by collaborative players for the dungeons on the server and accomplished easily enough, but im curious how often did you apply it in events?

I would be interested in meeting up IG some time to RP if you would like to some time in the future as well Im always up for my own personal improvements from more experienced players.

Side question, being a gnome, I would love to be able to replicate a "Speak with Stones" spell. Does the server have any items that can produce a 'Commune with Nature' spell once per day by chance?

Master Alchemist is a fun class hampered by the cost mechanics right now, but still with a small group of players that are giving it a go. Chambo has one so you'll fit right in to the "Gnomacracy" there, Tarent Nefzen is always looking for apprentices and such (though he is a generalist). I've also discussed things with NegInfinity regarding MA... Point being, that if you decide to go that route, there should be at least a few players that can help. That said, for your Divination needs Tsidkenu is absolutely the best resource for your up and coming wizard gnome!

Any thoughts on this build: http://nwn2db.com/build/?254504? Inspired by Valefort's Gnome Gish (thanks again for an inspirational build Valefort!).

Damage is a bit low, but AC and AB seems decent. Was also able to fit in up to GSF: Divination and Craft Wondrous Item (to craft a crystal ball or some sort for RP ) Although I would have preferred a Auto Still mage to emphasize using Truename Words of Power (in which I mean no somatics and all verbal spellcasting) I think I read somewhere that there is a 0 ASF padded armor for sale somewhere on the server.

@Chad-Id have liked to fit in Master Alchemist but dont think I would have been happy with the build spread

I cringe at the min max

I ran with cleric, diviner wizard speciality, asoc and blood magus for a while on a toon that invested heavily in reading divination through blood rituals.

Fun build and for a diviner augury by blood did make sense.
Split classes to divinate both ways to be sure, now with the commune spell possibly too powerful though.


The main beef with divination spelialization however is that when it come to affecting events and the like (most customers of hers did want such answers) demands working closely with a DM.
Thus the diviner specialist pretty much demands easy DM access, as we know that is a waxing and waning circumstance.

The scry line has opened up other paths to go however.

To act like a credible diviner also involves massive cooperation from other players to roleplay the mystic touch.
People offering the answer before someone asks the question can be rather annoying socially, for instance.

Edit: the most powerful diviner below and on faerun that I am aware of didnt spell focus divination btw, choosing to spell focus evocation and necromancy instead.
Gromph Baenre, wiz(diviner)18/am4.

/M

RamenKing wrote:I think Anthilar's Bane would benefit from from Spell Focus Divination as well. It's almost a 'must' if I intend to go the Power Words route, if I'm correct.

Yes, both Inhundl's Primer and Anthilar's Bane could use the DC boost in order to get the maximum effect for Power Words.

And do not underestimate how amazing Battle Precognition is. You'll need plenty of concentration to make the most use of it, but it is an -amazing- spell especially if you plan on gishing. Spell/Greater Focus Divination will help boost the will save for that one too.

RamenKing wrote:Can I ask if you've ever RP'd the spying/intel gathering benefit of a diviner, in a DM event I mean? It could be fun if asked to do it by collaborative players for the dungeons on the server and accomplished easily enough, but im curious how often did you apply it in events?

Plenty of times. Even had players coming to me to ask me to scry things for them, and the DMs on the whole have been supportive of the RP. I endeavoured not to make it something that happened every week; Aeili has had about 4-5 significant scrying requests which she's taken part in, in addition to a couple of events in which she was brought along in order to cast Legend Lore at a site to glean forgotten information about it.

RamenKing wrote:I would be interested in meeting up IG some time to RP if you would like to some time in the future as well Im always up for my own personal improvements from more experienced players.

I'll be slightly more available next week when I take a bit of a break from my current tenure playing on Sigil.

Thank you Storm and Tsidkenu.

So it seems to me that in order to portray divination as correctly as possible, most divination needs some form of conduit, whether it be blood, stars, cards or some other medium. Is that correct? That will be quite fun to come up with I think. Something relating to gnomes and perhaps the earth.

Any thoughts on the build? I know its not entirely powerful but will it be okay for this server? Improvements?

I will abstain from comment about the build due to my tendency to build primarily for RP, but in regards to earth divination ideas you could steal a few ideas from the Deep Diviner PRC.

Yes I'm aware that's a svirfneblin PRC but whatever. Use it for the ideas

Tsidkenu wrote:I will abstain from comment about the build due to my tendency to build primarily for RP, but in regards to earth divination ideas you could steal a few ideas from the Deep Diviner PRC.

Yes I'm aware that's a svirfneblin PRC but whatever. Use it for the ideas

Thats a source Ive been eyeing good to know im on the right trek

(minus the node and UD parts) So a not-so-deep diviner?

Edit: Something like this: http://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/cl ... amer.shtml